When is gun review not a real review…

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Blackpaw

Blackpaw

Member
Apr 23, 2020
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Idaho, United States
Okay, the question, “For you when is a review not a review?”

Yes this a thorny issue and what spurred me to post this is a reply I got from the YouTuber of Shooting Gear Reviews.


First I think the Youtuber of SGR does a decent job and does a okay overview of the guns. He does good quality videos and sound and etc. kind of a redneck feel to it with some pretty good hunting shots. 


However when I asked why doesn’t he post a pro/con about the gun as he sees it, his reply (see screenshot). 


Yes I am a scientist / engineer at heart and firmly believe in the scientific method and nothing is perfect. Everything has a flaw and if it is a real review the reviewer should reveal that to their audience. And if you don’t think about the pros/cons of something you’re reviewing as part of the process your review is just infomercial, at least I believe it is at some level. 


Lastly if I want more or don’t like then don’t watch. 
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....when it doesn't tell you much of anything, which, by the way, happens all the time on youtube. I always have to filter through several reviews to get someone who actually knows what they are talking about. To have a good review it requires someone who has working knowledge of airguns, as well as considerable experience shooting. Competition shooting or years of hunting experience is definitely a plus. Outside of that it's just a bunch of guys showing off their airguns on youtube. So that narrows the field down considerably. 
 
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I agree with you completely. I try to find reviews done by non sponsored small youtube channels. I watch the sponsored ones too but take everything with a huge grain of salt. My favorite sponsored channel is aeac. He does a fair job in my opinion and does mention downsides. There was a couple of times I thought he should have been harsher but nothing too outrageous. I learned alot from his channel especially his side channel where he tunes airguns and goes deeper into the mechanics. I don't want to talk trash about anyone else who does reviews but let's just say that it's obvious when someone is giving more of a commercial than a review. Obviously that is thier job and it brings new airgunners into the sport but I feel like alot of people are probably ending up with the wrong gun because they believed some fake claims about the gun in question. There are a couple guys that ***** hard on youtube and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 
 
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Gun reviews are not that different from any other review.What I mean is this,"know the reviewer!

You are reviewing a reviewers review on a subject matter,Never trust one reviewers opinion as fact.

Science,yea,it has established rules that can be replicated.....forget science for now;what you want is an honest opinion by someone that knows what they are talking about and has nothing to gain or lose.

It takes a lot of time to figure out what is what....simple reasoning would gather enough information to make a logical choice...

Be careful of "influence" you may only see and hear what you are looking for...now that is where science could help,problem is opinions are not the helm of science,wish they were.
 
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Like I said I am a scientist and engineer by nature. I do data analysis by nature, even hunting or fishing trying to look at trends to increase my success.

To me a proper review uses a structured method, and covers the ins and outs of the gun, WHICH YOU HAVE SPENT TIME WITH, to the best of your ability, especially if you are new to the brand. PLUS be honest, if there is anything you don’t like about the gun, have some balls and integrity and say it.

Yes, AEAC does do a benchmark job for how a commercial review channel can be informative, instructional and give a shooter insight into a new product to optimize it.

Also, I learned this, if anyone says “an unbiased / neutral” review, assessment, reporting, etc, that is a falsehood / fake news. To quote George Friedman of Stratfor, “You can never NOT be bias, because your assessment is based upon your experience, and each individual has individual experiences, thus two are never the same. Making the former mean, two people will never truly have identical assessments / reviews of a product if they are open and honest about it because of their individual biased experience.


 
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As a "retired" Engineer (not a scientist), I agree that, as posted..."nothing" is perfect. No matter how one may try to convince me otherwise. And to me, those that claim this comment during the reading or watching a video, gets an "oh well" attitude from me. I'll normally continue the reading/watching, but I do it with a lot more skepticism than I had at the beginning.

As another poster notes, Do not go by "one" reviewers video or writing. I saw that as a HARD reality when I first came into this hobby about two years ago, I knew basically nothing about today's high end (or even cheaper) air guns. But having a pretty varied Mechanical Engineering background, I know that reviewers have a basic way that, that person does things (everyone does). Each one has different methods to his/her testing and reporting. Also, being the highly skeptical person that I am, i even "try" to watch videos by the non-English speaking reviewers. Just watching how they go through their motions can sometimes reveal a lot.

Some do surface reviews, some (the better reviewers) spend the time (more than one or two days !), to actually get to know the gun. Unfortunately, many if not most reviewers don't pass out much if any bad, or marginal, questionable things about the guns reviewed either. That's not fair to the person watching the video/interested in that specific gun. I am, but I've found that not many people are much good at...reading between the lines. OR noticing what's NOT being said. That said, these, not so good items should not...be a personal thing. The can be lightly noted, but making a big deal about a minor "more personal like or dislike, is also...not fair to anyone. Like me, on the many "chassis" guns. I don't like the steep angle of the grips (AR and AK designs). If I were doing a review, I'd bring this up for maybe 10 seconds. NOT harping on it. Many don't care, some do, so lightly mention it, and move on. AND, mention that there are different grips available. Adjustments are a big thing to some. the reviewer should at least have spent a few minutes learning how to perform the adjustments on the gun. Power and trigger adjustments. I know that this is somewhat important to me. I'll watch "tuning" and "trigger" videos as part of my learning search. Just to try to learn as much as I can before making a buying decision. An internal suppressor system within the shroud is a nice thing to mention. Do I NEED to buy a seperate suppressor, or maybe the one inside the shroud "may be" fine. ? Part to part fit-up is a nice thing to mention. I've seen things that needed a clearance gap, especially in corners. Rather than design the inside corners to "properly" fit the outside corners, the designer may undercut the corner, so that the final fit-up has no question that the parts will maintain a good fit. Well...how many other things have been short cutted in the design ?

Per what Blackpaw notes about "biased" comments. I don't think that these comments are "fake news" or "falsehoods", not in the slightest. BUT, like I mentioned above, about the grip angle on some rifles. The reader/watcher needs to be made aware of by the reviewer, that "this is a personal comment" with no reflection on the guns final design. The item may, or does have merit, just maybe not to everyone.

Note, all this said, yeah, there is one guy out there that does take the time to learn the guns that he tests. The adjustments, the barrel manufacturers, the guns pellet desire, etc., etc. I'll sometimes watch his videos more than once.

Mike
 
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I wonder. For example someone here posted a review of the vixen I think it's "airgun channel". I have no idea if this guy is worth watching or not, and I don't have the patience to go through a whole video only to find out it's some kind of gushing product praise bullsh@t made with fear of offending the gun donor.


I just stay away from these things because i RARELY see a review and it all just seems desperate posturing designed mainly to ensure the person posting the video gets more free guns to film themselves flexing with or whatever.
 
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@mikeVV To me “fake news” is only when someone says their views are unbias, then this is truly false. Everyones’ views are biased. Experience / influence creates views and thus bias. You have to build knowledge some how, and that correlates to experience whether direct or indirect. Some people are bias against a certain brand because of a crappy gun, or dealer experience and while another, had a great experience with the same gun / dealer / manufacturer.

@mikevv you are correct also, the reviewers comments are their views, nothing more and buyer beware.

In the end it is the buyer’s responsibility on what they buy. If you dish out $2000 for a gun because of a “positive” review, then it is a lemon, it is on the buyer to deal with it, don’t blame the reviewer.

I just don’t consider a review a real review unless I hear pros / cons. If I don’t hear pros/cons then it the review is an “impression” not a real review.


 
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When the reviewer puts his own money on the table BEFORE the review, does not have an ax to grind and earns his income from HIS customers... You can probably trust the review... Free stuff isn't free. It IS encumbered by the vendor with unexpressed expectations.

There is entirely too much of that sort of bribery going on in the industry these days.
 
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Well i dont want / ask for flawless CUZ only politicians can give me that, and i try to keep better company, but i will want effortless, in the case of a airgun meaning that i can get it to shoot normal ammo good without too much effort.

I am hoping that when i pick up my Maverick i will also be able to try the vixen out, but i am not sure the shop have a range.

I might just have to make do feeling it and other brand guns up, for sure picking up my Maverick, from i enter the store till i leave, it might very well be 3-4-5 hours later.

I will make a new YT channel dedicated to my shooting and post a simple user review of my Maverick after i have used it for a little while.



I will also agree experience / influence can cause bias, i am also pretty deep into dashcams and very active on the #1 forum for those, and i do also get free samples from several brands to test and so call myself affiliated with those, but i dont really do reviews as such, what i do is make footage available, and myself for any requests in regard to something.

And i do also say what i feel about any camera i have tested, of course negative stuff i try my very best to back up with useful facts, other than that on the forum i just try to give people the best possible premise to make their own decision on what camera system to get.
 
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When a REVIEWER is not honest in what they think, not sharing Pro / Con attributes & being transparent to where reviewed item had come from be it Purchased for discount, Loaned or Given to them. IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE !!!



So much behind the curtain pay for, discount incentives or outright gifting for those to make positive reviews be them Video or Text, Hosted Utube etc, Forums or otherwise.

All one has to do is READ who has Banner ads showing and know who won't be bad mouthed.





Knowledge is Power, always has been. Beware the POUNDING of a repeated sales pitch.
 
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All reviews are reviews. However some reviews are not up to certain people’s standard but it doesn’t make it less of a review……technically speaking. as @motorhead mentioned a lot of them do have guns given to them for review and content of the review “could” be influenced by that and I’m ok with because some information is better than no information. Some simply didn’t disclose possible negatives which I’m also ok with because I can figure that out myself and some out right lies about everythiny which is even easier to figure out. But technically they are still reviews, just really god aweful review. HOWEVER, if there is a review that simply lie through their teeth like the cattleman reviews then it’s actually really simple to see and immediately avoid, that is also GOOD information. Snake oil salesman only sells snake oil! If someone buys into that then guess it’s just tuition at the university of reality……which we all need to go through, I’m almost super senior status, I think. LOL



IMHO if a “general” review doesn’t have detailed technical information and consistent review methodology like Steve from AEAC or application specific break down then it’s just another useless “review” videos on YouTube I won’t watch. 
 
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There are only two members here who I watch with any regularity - Dana (Crosman999) and our in-house one eyed bandit scope reviewer. I really appreciate AEACs work done producing very good reviews, but if you watch to many of them they get a bit methodical. As a more advanced airgunner (now) I don't need to see how to fill my airgun and the simple little things - but I can appreciate how a novice to the hobby can learn (as I did earlier on) a lot from these videos.

But my true insight to any airgun are the people here on AGN. Regular Joes who buy the gun and are truly honest about the good and the bad of their first hand experience. 

I also dislike youtubers who come onto AGN almost daily to solicit information that they then take and regurgitate for their 33k subscribers. But hey - that's just me. 
 
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+1. The guys who buy a gun at FULL RETAIL PRICE  have no incentive to sugar coat or lie about what they say. I now see You Tube video makers going to great pains to state they paid for the gun they are reviewing. Maybe they paid something, but anyone who paid less than the full retail price, is still a paid reviewer. I have more respect for the few who are honest and clearly state they are getting paid all or in part for the videos they are posting. I also have no use for a paid plagerizer who leeches info from our members, then acts knowledgeable to get free/reduced price products, to try and resell at ridiculous prices in our classifieds.
 
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Only go to a OEM site for specifications of a product. Do-Not trust ads, indeed fast forward them as they All will have a financial interest.

I have been questioned at length by others even on this site as to "why" I ask so many questions.....as they preach... "just go with your Gut Feeling" for me specifically, a " Gut Feeling " simply takes a lot of Guts, and as such being able to accept in your heart the OPP's Factor because of lack of patients and research!
 
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Actually, I thought about this post and decided I needed to say more. Even if a someone (including myself) buys a gun at full retail price, which I always do, you still may not get a real review. Recently, I bought an expensive air rifle. Waited a long time for it. It was a turd. Sent it in for repair more than once. It was still a turd.

Were I to come on here and tell you the truth, two things would happen. #1, if the gun maker pays to advertise on this website, they will complain to it’s owner, and I will be censured or banned or both. I have had more posts edited and deleted and threats of being banned for trying to tell the truth than I can remember. #2, if I tell you the truth about a gun I bought that is a turd, what do you think it does for selling it in the classifieds? Many will remember my post saying the gun is no good, and will not buy at anywhere near what I paid for it. The only honest reviews are from those who bought the gun at the full retail price, and then only by Private Message, and usually after they have sold the gun. AFTER I get rid of the gun, I will tell you what was wrong with it, but only privately, so I don’t get banned for stepping on the toes of an advertiser, and even then, only certain long-time members that I trust.

The gun that I told you was a turd in this post above, I returned to the dealer for credit only, which is always my preferred course of action. I could not in clear conscience sell it to any of you, even though it is highly sought after, the price went up since the preorder and I could have easily sold it and recouped all my money. If I cannot return it to the dealer for credit, I get it repaired and sell it immediately upon it’s return without shooting it. Most, will not go through this effort. They will just sell it and lie about it.
 
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I take all reviews with a grain or two of salt. I know they rely on the manufacturers to supply them with product so they have to be careful about what they say. I tend to gravitate to AEAC reviews because he seems to be one of the few that shoots beyond 25-30 yards. Just about any rifle will be accurate at short distance. His VBLOGs also give a lot of info and you can tell he really puts effort into his review. I also think if you watch a lot of different reviews of the same rifle you can get a sense of the rifle and whether or not you might want to own it.
 
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I’ve badmouthed plenty of guns. I will occasionally badmouth the guns I own and like. The key is how you do it. Someone on here a couple years ago called me a hater concerning SPA guns. My reply was I own six of them so hate might be the wrong word. One of the best observations I saw while reading this topic was how an advanced airgunner sees a review. You see them for what they really are. A goofy little commercial for bored guys with room on their credit cards. Guys who have owned and stuck with an airgun know if you review it in the first week you own it, over the next six months you will be retracting statement after statement you made about it. I think all of us that replied to this topic would really like to see a real review but that isn’t going to happen with our current crop of reviewers. If the more guns you review the more money you make is how it works, how could you expect anything other than a fluff piece. I don’t watch reviews, I have plenty of other stuff to watch. I ask questions on a forum or I just buy it and review it myself. For what guys pay for a used airgun, they definitely are not a gamble with your money.
 
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