Where are my groups going?

[Slayerious]

Hi,

It seems I did make ok two-shot groups, but why are they randomly off center?

I shot them leaning to a car, gun resting on the front hood.

I also shot most shots without changing my head position.

The diamond in the top-left corner has only one shot because other shot hit a branch and ricocheted somewhere. The two groups on the low-right were for sighting in.

I am not a pro shooter but I'd like to know possible reasons to this to develop myself further.

84m=91yards - Thanks for any advice!

 

[broekzwans]

Your groups are probably changing with the change of your body position behind the rifle. Every slight change in position results in a different POI. Even slightly different pressure on the bipod results in changing shot placement.

It looks like you hold your position well during each two shots but it changes in between aiming at another target. I'm noticing the same things during my shooting. For me it is getting better but consistent hold is the key focus in this I think.

 

[JohnL57]

You might be be canting (tilting) the gun between groups. If the gun and scope aren't vertical it will throw your POI to one side or the other. A bubble level on the scope rail will help with this.
John

 

[Willie14228]

There are a lot of questions that need to be asked before a good answer can be made, What was the wind speed and direction? was the vehicle running? what is the height of the hood compared to you ie are you standing leaning over the hood having to crouch,, and so on.
It could be simply you are pulling your shots, or if the motor was running the rhythm of the idle could be causing you problems or if you are leaning on the car your own heartbeat rhythm can cause the cars suspension to react.
Canting your gun can cause an issue, they do make a scope level that you might consider using to help train you to shoot upright. A cars hood isn't your best option for getting a good bench rest.
If I may let me suggest this, ( Of course make sure your unloaded and un-cocked)
set up on your hood again or what ever you want to use as your bench, for this you can use your kitchen table as you will not actually be shooting, I don't want to tell you to dry fire as I don't know what you are shooting,
what we want to do is to see if you are pulling your shots so you can pull the trigger un-cocked just pull to the stop while looking through the scope, see if you are moving the gun during your trigger pull, Our instructor would make us say BANG

So the steps
1. get into position
2. target 
3. target focus
4. trigger pull and vocalize with BANG
5. Follow through, hold your trigger pull did you see any target shake?
6. release, reset, repeat,
The whole idea is learning trigger control and train your body to get into the same hold position every time. We spent a lot of time shooting our guns without ammo just training trigger control and position training.

 

[Slayerious]

Thanks for advice! I knew you would give me some great insight to this.

There was wind, I used intuition and waited it out with the worst blows.
I do have bubble level, and its great.
It is made by Wheeler Dealers.

The car was not running, but I do remember that I had problem with friction with my right foot. (It was raining and there was mud)

Consciously I moved it only once but now that I think of my position I probably have also had a problem with fatigue in hip/legs and then moved the leg position slightly for other muscles to do the work!

That day I noticed having trigger pull issues after couple of good shots
But with these shots I was very careful.

I leaned to the car, elbows on the hood and gun was on its case.
Harris bipod has small springs which may have potentially to changed POI as I tried to keep the gun steady by applying weight on it.

Thank you very much for the tips! I will put them to use for sure! I had NO idea that the rest of the body has that much effect on accuracy. Even my eye was steady

 

[Slayerious]

I have trained my trigger-use but only in prone.

This was actually the first time I shot that far and shooting in prone was not possible.
After I had shot I instantly understood that I really need help with this..

This proved to be a very good lesson.

 

[Willie14228]

The biggest issue with shooting and leaning your body into a car body is your own body rhythm will be magnified your heartbeat pumping against the side of the vehicle, your breathing pushing against your body. A good bench rest position minimizes body contact
Hope it helps

 

[Slayerious]

Thanks, I had my hip to the car and my center of weight kind of arced over the vehicle otherwise. But as a result of that I had a lot weight to the hood in downwards position by my elbows.

It helped my aiming but in reality it made the groups worse.

Unfortunally other positions would have been even worse, there is a small hill between me and target, so I have to elevate myself somehow.

 

[indygunworks]

Two probable contributors.... research both of these and incorporate them into your practice.

Adjusting and setting the proper parallax (this does not mean just setting it to the proper "number" for the range you are shooting. those numbers are guidelines and may not be eliminating the parallax.... an inappropriately adjusted parallax very easily can cause this.

NPA. Natural Point of Aim. if you don't figure out how to master this, you will never reach your full potential, and will consistently get the same issue you are experiencing. 

 

[Slayerious]

Yes, parallax.. I do not remember anymore how well it was set. I always wiggle my head after setting it to confirm it is good, but at that difficult position it could have been hard.

I think this could be one of the reasons to differences between the groups, but if it was so.. It would be damn embarassing!

And with that position it was hard to keep relaxed aiming, had to work my body to the car by pushing with my legs.

But when I took the shots I took half a breath and once I let it out I aimed center and focused on the trigger.