Which pellet? and practice!!!

[Centercut]

I’ve decided near the start of this Covid-19 fiasco that I wanted to actually get into FT vice just talking about it. I’ve been talking about it for a year prior to that, and got a gun ready that I’ve been practicing with. It started as a .22 FX Crown but I found a .177 FX ST barrel on AGN classifieds that was modified to fit the Crown. 

It shot pretty accurately over the past year and last year when testing, the 10.65 H&N Barracuda Match shot the best at 890 FPS. I’ve shot 25M BR with this gun and scored around 715.

So I’ve been practicing a few times a week bucket and sticks. But still need a lot of work kneeling and especially off hand. Yesterday I decided to check accuracy at 50 yards and the 6 shot group below is typical with a light left to right breeze.

Before I started practice at different ranges I noticed a tin of 13.43 grain JSB RD Monsters n my bag and thought I’d give it a try at about 820 FPS.. This is the typical 6 shot group. It also had much less drift in the wind.

So it looks like this will be the pellet of choice at 20 FPE. Now I really need to practice ranging and off hand shooting!

 

[Franklink]

@ 50 yards, that right there will do for FT!!! Nice shooting. 

I'm still on the fence about whether or not the improved BC of the 13.43gr is worth the more loopy trajectory at 20fpe for ft. I've played with the ballistic calculators in comparison and still don't have a conclusive opinion. 

I personally shoot the 10.34s out of my main FT rig but tested some of the 13.43s in the Brocock Concept XRs and was surprised to see how much better they do in the wind at this power level. 

I shared this in the review but it's applicable so here it is again:

Ten shot groups at 53 yards in an 8-10mph wind. Tightest group, easily, is the upper left, and happens to be the 13.43s. 

The rest of the ft discussion is that at 16x for a scope power limit for Hunter class, ranging is much harder to do than the classes that allow the big 10-50x scopes. 

I'm still not sure which is better (faster/flatter or slower/more rainbow), but people are successful with both ideologies.

 

[Yo]

These are worth a try if you can find these and get a good lot. Late 1980s early 90s. They were THE MOST ACCURATE pellets in many of my guns rivaling and surpassing the well sought after Crosman Premier Die2 Heavies and NO MINE ARENT FOR SALE until I learned first hand that there are such things as bad batch lots then they were discontinued.

 

[Scotchmo]

If you are very good at ranging targets, then go with the most accurate pellets. But I see that you are using a 15x scope. If that's what you plan on using for FT, then ranging the 45-55yd targets can be problematic. Even though the 820fps pellets are grouping better, the 890fps might be a better choice for FT courses with a lot of far targets. You'll need to range about 13% more precisely to be inside the KZ when using the slower pellets.

However, if you are on a windy course, then the reduced drift of the heavier pellets might be the deciding factor.

I shoot at a lot of FT courses, under a lot of different conditions. I usually prefer the mid weight pellets (10.3gr), shooting as fast as allowed. It gives a good balance of minimizing wind drift while maximizing tolerance for ranging errors.

 

[cea1960]

That is a wicked looking stock, and it's bite is as bad as it's bark hiss.

 

[davecole]

And practice, practice, practice indeed. The forced positions in most matches determine the winner and who finished second place. I know this from personal experience just yesterday.

One of the practice steps I use, is to buddy up with another fellow shooter and have him put a target out (We use the AV Rat on the run because they have an easy to adjust reducer that doesn’t fall off like other brands) at an unknown distance to me. We typically practice with a KZ which scores at least a 30 to say 35 on the Troyer scale and I do the same for him. If your just starting out you may want to use a Troyer between a 20-30 until you become proficient. One of the most challenging things you will do besides the forced positions would be to accurately range a 3/4” KZ between say 26 and 37 yards where if you misjudge by as much as a quarter mildot, it’s a faceplate and not KZ hit. 

When you KNOW the distance to the target your holdovers are easy. Most any gun over $300 can do it with some consistency. It’s when you have to KNOW within a yard or two the distance to the target that determines wether you stand on the podium or in the crowd.

you got this CC! Welcome aboard the FT addiction train.

 

[chasdicapua]

Centercut, when I started in FT, an experienced shooter in our club said that 80% of one's practice time should be in forced positions. I have taken that advice and think it's good advice. 

I've shot one season with the 13.4gr pellets and one with the 10.3gr pellets. Nothing to add as others have laid out the advantages and disadvantages. I think I'm going to stay with the 10.3gr as I have better knock down percentages in the 45-55 yard targets with them. 

Chas

 

[AirNGasman]

Having had my fill of offhand shooting during a decade-long NRA silhouette career, I'm gonna disagree with Chas about devoting 80% of One's practice time to forced positions. Assuming you have a firmer grasp on sanity than me, you'll burn-out quickly on FT by doing that. First and foremost FT should be FUN, and not many FT shooters consider offhand shooting fun enough to spend 80% of their trigger-time banging their head against that wall. 

Otherwise, Scotchmo pretty much nailed my thoughts and suggestions.

 

[Guest]

Maybe %80 is too much. 20 rounds per practice session should be enough.

As for the pellet. One advantage of the RD Monster is less, not more drop from 40-55yds thanks to a better bc. With a high mounted scope, 3"+ the holdovers will be less which gives you a bit of wiggle room when ranging. If so inclined give it a try.

 

[steve123]

Maybe %80 is too much. 20 rounds per practice session should be enough.

As for the pellet. One advantage of the RD Monster is less, not more drop from 40-55yds thanks to a better bc. With a high mounted scope, 3"+ the holdovers will be less which gives you a bit of wiggle room when ranging. If so inclined give it a try.

John, at 7200ft elevation from 40-55Y I get .6 mils of drop/ or 2.1 moa drop, with the 10.3's going 930 fps in my FT set up. That's with a 2.4" scope height. 

What BC for the 13.4's, fps, and scope height do you use so I can put that info into my ballistic calculator. 

I just want to check to see if it's more beneficial for me to try the 13.4's.

 

[Guest]

I'll have fo measure the scope height and run a string to find out. Give me an hour.

 

[Guest]

Or not. Something came up. I'll try to get to it this week.

 

[Scotchmo]

..One advantage of the RD Monster is less, not more drop from 40-55yds thanks to a better bc. ...

In the 45-55yd range, a 13.43gr@820fps (regardless of how good the BC) will always have more drop then a 10.3gr@890fps (.031BC). There is simply not enough time to target for the better BC to overcome it's lower muzzle velocity.

If you were shooting at much longer distances 100yds+, then the better BC might win out.

 

[Scotchmo]

John, at 7200ft elevation from 40-55Y I get .6 mils of drop/ or 2.1 moa drop, with the 10.3's going 930 fps in my FT set up. That's with a 2.4" scope height. 

What BC for the 13.4's, fps, and scope height do you use so I can put that info into my ballistic calculator. 

I just want to check to see if it's more beneficial for me to try the 13.4's.

Don't confuse drop with POI. The drop of a 900fps projectile will be in the 6" range at 50 yards.

Drop is measured from the boreline.

POI is measured from the line of sight.

 

[steve123]

John, at 7200ft elevation from 40-55Y I get .6 mils of drop/ or 2.1 moa drop, with the 10.3's going 930 fps in my FT set up. That's with a 2.4" scope height. 

What BC for the 13.4's, fps, and scope height do you use so I can put that info into my ballistic calculator. 

I just want to check to see if it's more beneficial for me to try the 13.4's.

Don't confuse drop with POI. The drop of a 900fps projectile will be in the 6" range at 50 yards.

Drop is measured from the boreline.

POI is measured from the line of sight.

I know what you mean but what I like to do is plug the data into my SHOOTER app and see what the differences are in drop and drift for my gun. At my altitude I use .033 G1 BC for the 10.3's to get everything to line up. I could use John's data too by starting a new gun in my app which isn't hard to do.

What I don't know is what the BC of the 13.4's are?? 

Assuming both pellets provide the same precision, and being that the 10.3's will be going 115 fps faster, I'd like to know how much advantage the 13.4's have for myself

I don't know if the BC is correct or not but I plugged in .037 G1 BC for the 13.4's going 815 fps which is just under 20 fpe. Using my rifle I get .2 mil or .7 moa less windage than the 10.3's at 55Y BUT .4 mil or 1.5 moa more drop at 55Y. Considering that a 1.5" KZ is approximately 3.1 moa at 55Y, and we're aiming at KZ circles, which get harder to hit if the shot is either low or high (wouldn't make any difference if the KZ was square, right?!) I personally would rather use the 10.3's for Hunter if ranging on 15x.

Back when I used to shoot Hunter with my Panther I used 8.4's at 1005 fps and had great success with them at the longer distances but back then we had to use 12x for ranging which I found hard to use from 40-55Y. Yep they blew more in the wind but I used a 40Y zero so they only dropped .6 mil at 55Y, .3 mil at 50Y and .1 at 45Y. Basically from 24Y to 45Y were - "aim" slightly low or high of middle depending on the distance, not counting wind of course. Back in the good old days when we could use attached bipods! 

 

[Guest]

Very good scott you figured me out. Percieved drop is less when looking through the scope. 

 

[Scotchmo]

Very good scott you figured me out. Percieved drop is less when looking through the scope.

Not sure what you mean by "perceived drop". If you mean the difference from your Point-Of-Aim from a ranging error, that will depend on the scope height and what distance you are sighted in at. If you are shooting at the distance that you are sighted-in for a particular pellet, the "perceived drop" is zero. It does not matter what pellet you are using.

Actual drop is a function of time of flight to target, and the acceleration of gravity.

 

[Canon9999]

Very interesting.................................Conrad