N/A Who likes .20?!?!

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Franklink said:
At

@20 foot pounds the 13.73 has a slightly better BC than the 13grain .177, from most barrels. (Th .177/13.3 is a commonly used field target pellet).

@30fpe the long range performance of the .20/15.89 destroys the typical 30fpe .22/18.1.

For apples to apples, the .20/15.89 has a higher BC than when I've measured BCs from the .177/16.2. The .20/15.89 also has a much higher BC than the .22/15.89.

For reference,
.177/13.3 is usually in the 0.032-0.038 range.
.20/13.73 is often around 0.042, but I've measured as high as 0.044 and also use that in Strelok to match actual trajectory.
.177/16.2 highest BC I could attain was 0.04, with a tailwind. So 0.038 is more realistic.

.20/15.89 BC is 0.048
.22/15.89 BC is down around 0.032-0.035
.22/18.1 BC is more like 0.036-0.04
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Franklink,

Thanks very much for the detailed comment!

*** @30fpe the long range performance of the .20/15.89 destroys the typical 30fpe .22/18.1. ***

Curious what you mean by "long range" and how it "destroys" the typical .22/18.1.

I shoot the 18.1 out of my 30 fpe PCPs (S510XS, HW100S, Wolverine R and Crown MK2) and at my 40 yard range and groups are (the occasional flyer or oops aside) are usually sub 3/8", often under 1/4" and frequently smaller than that in calm conditions.

Will a .20 caliber airgun be noticeably better?

This BC stuff is all very interesting and definitely applicable to bench shooting and such but does it make a difference over typical airgunning ranges for typical airgunning applications? I'll pest out to 75 yards or so with my Impact but most of my shooting is (currently) 50 yards or less. I suspect that many people rarely shoot 30 fpe airguns much beyond 30 yards.

I'm always on the lookout for exceptionally accurate airguns. I'm still not convinced that I should get a .20. Please help me if I'm missing out not having one.

Cheers!
 
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Vana2 said:
Franklink,

Thanks very much for the detailed comment!

*** @30fpe the long range performance of the .20/15.89 destroys the typical 30fpe .22/18.1. ***

Curious what you mean by "long range" and how it "destroys" the typical .22/18.1.

I shoot the 18.1 out of my 30 fpe PCPs (S510XS, HW100S, Wolverine R and Crown MK2) and at my 40 yard range and groups are (the occasional flyer or oops aside) are usually sub 3/8", often under 1/4" and frequently smaller than that in calm conditions.

Will a .20 caliber airgun be noticeably better?

This BC stuff is all very interesting and definitely applicable to bench shooting and such but does it make a difference over typical airgunning ranges for typical airgunning applications? I'll pest out to 75 yards or so with my Impact but most of my shooting is (currently) 50 yards or less. I suspect that many people rarely shoot 30 fpe airguns much beyond 30 yards.

I'm always on the lookout for exceptionally accurate airguns. I'm still not convinced that I should get a .20. Please help me if I'm missing out not having one.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

The .22/18.1 is a great pellet. Very accurate, no arguments from me there.

When shooting long range, BC can be considered a measure of the wind deflection. Higher BC = less wind deflection. It's why there's been so much fervor for slugs in the last couple years.

So, .22/18.1get pushed away from desired impact point more than a .20/15.89 would, both situations in the same wind. And this isn't theoretical, but actual results I've seen when shooting them both on the same day at the same target at the same 100 yards.

As a crude example, say you need a 3-4 inch hold off to get a .22/18.1 to drop where you want @ 75 yards. You'll only need a 1-2 inch hold off for the .20/15.89 in the same wind. And the difference only improves as distance increases.

And since wind is the ever-changing variable, reducing the amount I have to hold off for wind increases my chances of guessing correctly. Field Target and pesting are my favorite ways to enjoy airguns. Occasionally I'll get to "walk one in" on a pest, but sighters are against the rules in field target. That makes the ability to make the first shot count valuable to me.

There's also the retained energy aspect. The .22/18.1 loses speed, and therefore energy, faster than the higher BC .20/15.89.

And I'm certainly one of those "not many people shooting 30fpe past 30 yards." But I love the challenge and I love the conservation of air and I love how calm a 30fpe gun is versus a 60fpe gun.

Cheaper than buying a new gun in .20, you can play with any of the ballistics apps to "see" the difference. Use a BC of 0.036 for the .22/18.1 (or 0.038 if you're being REALLY optimistic). And 0.048 for the .20/15.89.
 
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I found .20s just fun to shoot. I find. 177 alittle too small to be great for long range pesting. Can be done but not great. I for one regularly push my Evol Mini at 850fps with 18gr JTS to 80-100yds regularly. I shoot birds only, used to shoot ground squirrels but good Lord wiped them out in a late blizzard 4 years ago and they've never recovered. So with that 30fpe at muzzle is more than enough for a pigeon at 100yds. I will say my JTS 18gr have shown great BC of .045 in my testing but my barrel is only a 4 groove and no choke so i think it helps vs say your typical 12 groove choked barrel on the BCs. But the 15.9gr .20 is a great pellet and way more consistent than the .22 MRDs also. I'm definitely tempted with one now. Like Cole I love the lower power guns for pesting and a good 30fpe .20 gun I'd choose any day than say a 50fpe .22 or 60fpe .25. Much safer power levels on the farm.
 
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I 100% agree....30fpe is a sweet spot for enough oomph to reach out, but not so much that you've gotta be worried about putting holes in stuff that shouldn't have holes (livestock, buildings, farm equipment, etc). Within reason anyway, couple hundred yards still need to be aware of downrange, but oast 400 or so, as long as the pellet hits the ground within the first 150 yards, won't carry enough fpe past that. I also love how much less air it takes to push a projectile to 30fpe versus even 45fpe (my most powerful airgun).

That's awesome that the .22/18s from JTS and from the EVOLs unique barrel have such a high BC. Big difference in downrange performance when the BC is that much higher. All my testing with .22/18.1s where the BC was less than 0.04 was from 12 land and groove choked barrels, either Lothars or CZ. But I too have seen particular barrel/pellet combos that are outliers, producing BCs higher than that same pellet when shot from other barrels (mostly in .177 situations).

Funny you mention the consistency of the .20/15.89 versus the .22/25.4 MRD. I shot a bunch today, specifically comparing those exact two pellets, alot of it at 100 yards. Man alive was I frustrated with the flyers from the MRDs! And the. 20/15.89 flew straight and true. I need to do some more testing comparing lubes and such for the MRDs, but with today's variables, the .20/15.89 walked all over the MRDs.
 
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Been a HUGE fan of the .20 cal in the FT game or as light field hunters these past 8 years. The 13.7 JSB at @ 800 fps in my HW barreled TM has been a .044 BC pellet.
Built over the years these AG's with .20's fitted ....

Daystate MK-3
RAW TM-1000
Daystate Airwolf
QB-79
JSAR Raptor
Taipan Veteran

All were/are stellar shooters set up in .20 caliber.
 
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I don't have a .20 cal. pcp only a Hw97k blue lam. Laser accurate out to 50 yards. A proven hunter.
06274AC9-orig.jpg
 
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Farmplinker2 said:
Why .20? Other people don't have them, and you can talk about how superior your knowledge is.
In the immortal words of Brandon Herrera, "Flexing is not a right, it's an obligation".
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I'm not sure what you're saying here.

The intent of started this topic was simply to let folks know about a new .20 option. In the course of my posts here and elsewhere I've had many comments that they wish there were more guns made in .20. Then some asked what's so special about the .20 so I answered that question.
 
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Franklink said:
Alright, in my. 20 escapades with the Veteran and more recently the Ghost, I've had multiple people comment that they wish there were more .20 options available.

www.airgunrevisions.com

.20 cal Benjamin Marauder Regulated - Airgun Revisions

Lothar Walther Match Grade Barrel Factory Regulated Gun 1 Carm 10 shot Magazine (additional to be purchased through Carm on-line) Turkish Walnut Stock Up to 880fps with 13g ammo AR's SSG installed One Piece machined bolt Fully Adjustable 3 stage trigger All Airgun Revisions Exclusive guns are...
www.airgunrevisions.com www.airgunrevisions.com

I've got no I affiliation with them just sharing the news for those who have expressed interest in a .20 cal.
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Other than the Marauder, what are the other .20 caliber PCPs ( I.e., Manufacturers) that are available for purchase? I just looked on AoA’s website, an no PCPs available in .20 caliber.

Thanks
Tom
 
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tommyb said:
Other than the Marauder, what are the other .20 caliber PCPs ( I.e., Manufacturers) that are available for purchase? I just looked on AoA’s website, an no PCPs available in .20 caliber.

Thanks
Tom
Click to expand...
Edgun is one that I know for here in the US. Air force is another. A few of the smaller manufacturers would probably do a 1-off if ordered. The rest are Europe based. PA initially had the HW110 for sale in .20 when they came out, but that fell through. I was going to get one up until that point. Ended up going with Edgun instead. Daystate, I believe, still has some but I'm not really sure anymore.
Easiest thing to do is email the companies and ask.
 
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dv8eod said:
Edgun is one that I know for here in the US. Air force is another. A few of the smaller manufacturers would probably do a 1-off if ordered. The rest are Europe based. PA initially had the HW110 for sale in .20 when they came out, but that fell through. I was going to get one up until that point. Ended up going with Edgun instead. Daystate, I believe, still has some but I'm not really sure anymore.
Easiest thing to do is email the companies and ask.
Click to expand...

Other than what you mention, having a barrel blank machined to fit is currently about the only option. Seems the going rate to have a machinist do the work + actual barrel blank itself is usually $300-400. Lothar sells blanks for about $130-140 last I looked, so a guy with machinist skills could make just about any gun they want into a .20 for about that much $$$.

I've been told by my industry contacts that theyre following my review of the .20 Ghost closely and MAY eventually make a .20 Ghost as a factory option.

On another note, I shot the .20 Ghost yesterday at EBR in the American Field Target event, and also in the Ultimate Field Target Event (not part of EBR) last night. For EBR I was in the "Sportsman" class, which is .22 and below, everyone else in that class shot a .22 with Monster RDs or course, and at 55-60 fpe of course, roughly double the fpe I had from the .20. In addition to my recorded score at EBR I hit the kill zone on 5 targets that didn't go down, just not enough oomph to knock em down. Results aren't out on how my score was at EBR, but from some of the other shooters I spoke with, there's a chance I might place with how I did with the .20. I shot a 35/40 with .20 slugs at the Ultimate Field Target Event, which was only one shot shy of tying the previous record for slugs at these events, were it not for Thayne Simmons and Steve M also using slugs. Thayne shot a 38/40 and Steve M shot a 37/40. Both of them were using 3x the FPE that had in the .20. I don't feel too bad losing to Thayne or Steve, both very talented shooters. Im pretty impressed that the lowly .20 was able to hang with the big boys at such reduced fpe compared to what they were shooting.
 
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I’m like Shambozzie and absolutely love my Theoben rapid .20 that Allen Zasadney built.
It’s unbelievably accurate. These two groups are five shots at 130 yards using the lighter pellets, it doesn’t do quite as well with the heavies.
Only my RedWolf .177 HP shooting slugs
has come close to these groups at that distance.
But if there’s ANY wind at all the pellets drift right out of the group.
It was dead calm when I shot the groups.
If I could only have one rifle it would absolutely be this one.

IMG_4876.jpeg


IMG_4171.jpeg


IMG_2903.jpeg
 
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