Who makes the best barrels for air rifles?

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zebra said:
i noticed that LW sells air rifle barrel blanks on their site for $130. These are already chambered, choked and rifled. Would it be a case of just buying the correct die or tap to add the right threads for your action to finish the barrel or is there more too it?
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@zebra
In answer to the blue text above

I've been considering a Lothar Walther barrel for a Duk Il 177
Here is what I learned from Skip at LW last week

Lothar Walther air gun barrels arrive from Germany at LW in the USA as true barrel blanks
They are rifled, and that is it
Also, LW USA does not do any machining on them
This leaves the buyer to either finish the machining or send the barrel out to be done
That work includes cutting to length, crowning, machining a leade, turning and/or threading to fit into the receiver, threading the barrel end (if desired).
& machining a transfer port.
I may be forgetting something as I am not a gunsmith or machinist
Others with more knowledge hopefully will chime in

Hope this gets a good conversation started on this aspect of buying a barrel blank

Ed
 
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The barrel just like on powder burning guns is only what it is. Any of the top barrel manufacturers are no better than the other. Your load development is what makes you accurate. Pick a barrel stick with it for a couple thousand rounds, find out what weight and velocity it likes, and do your part on basic rifle fundamentals. That is where accuracy comes from.
 
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zebra said:
I've just been told by the guy from Mac1 that the Benchmark barrels were not accurate at all and the Lilja barrels were just ok. I think he is back to using LW barrels. He specifically mentioned the LW polygon barrels.

I've now heard from two sources that genuinely compete at the top level that LW barrels are the best for air guns.

The only issue with that for me, is that the top level of competition with air guns is almost exclusively .177 as far as I can tell. It doesn't mean the tooling is as good for the other calibers. If you were going to take extra care in one caliber, I would choose the one most people compete with to showcase the brand well.

I have no idea why the top barrel brands in America are unable to make an accurate air rifle barrel, given that the specs came from a top airgun smith and one that competes too.
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Because the top barrel manufacturers like Bartlein and Hawk Hill are running 24/7 supplying F-Class, Benchrest and PRS competitors who purchase multiple barrels are year depending on caliber. If shooting barrel burners like the 6mm Creedmoor, a PRS competitor could burn through a half dozen barrels a year if he's shooting lots of events.

The cost of premium barrels from Bartlein are many times the cost of LW barrels and the material selection, cutting of lands (cut vs button) would probably face resistence from airgun shooters, not to mention special contours and threading for suppressors or muzzle brakes.

Prefit Bartlein barrels from from Stuteville Precision run around $750.00 with carbon fiber versions running around $1,200.00
 
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HogKiller said:
Well, if you can believe a guy that makes ultra precision air guns... NOT ME....https://www.shilen.com/barrelGrades.html. IF their blurb is to be believed and until I hear/see otherwise, these are PRECISE barrels.
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I have had Shilen barrels (.243 Ackley Improved) and they are precision barrels. If you look at current and recent past competitions in PRS, F-Class and benchrest, you'll see Bartlein is by far the top barrel used by competitors. Others, Hawk Hill are good as well.
 
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zebra said:
It's kinda interesting that none of the top 5 barrel brands used by the 50 best long range shooters in America make air rifle barrels. I really want to try a Krieger or Benchmark barrel but I can't find any info on others who have tried them in air guns.

The he twist rate of their 22 rimfire barrels is 1:16 which is fairly close to the 1:17 of air gun barrels and the bore diameter is the same.
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I'm ding to try a Krieger barrel in my raw or m3 but not sure who woukd machine a blank.
 
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ajshoots said:
This is the million dollar question!! Accuracy is an equation of efficiency and a good barrel combined. Look at BR results. Many different barrels fill the top 10. LW, CZ, ST, TJ, many barrels are really good and I feel it is much more than just the barrel that makes for a winning combo!!
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New to this all. I know LW and CZ but what brands are ST and TJ abbreviations for? Thanks in advance!
 
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John spysir Blount said:
First you buy what hopefully is a good barrel. Then you ( someone ) prep it, this has as much to do with it being a truly "good" barrel or average. Some sizes/cal. of LW are know the be, perhaps not as good as others. A visual with a good scope, after cleaning, would show a gross defect but couldn't guarantee it a one hole shooter and as people beginning to expect even greater accuracy only those who have their barrels correctly prepped including hand lapping will enjoy blaming every miss on themselves .

And for History the Career rifles had " Walther " barrels and were outstanding and still sought out by some. The .177 was the first to ( have a good enough barrel) and high enough shot count with a reg installed to finish and win a Field Target match.

So a quality barrel, several hours of prep and you chances of a golden barrel are much higher =) .
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New to all this. Was hoping you could expand on what all is involved in ‘prepping’ a barrel besides the hand lapping that you mentioned (which to be honest I’m not even fully familiure with what that entail's but assume it’s similar to papping scope rings?). Any suggested resources/videos that show one how to go about doing this? Thanks in advance!
 
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AZBOBCAT said:
For ultimate accuracy top airgunsmiths will slug the barrel to check for tight or loose spots as well as choke or remove choke as needed. They will Han lapand polish the bore smoothing out any microscopic scratches or burs that would put drag on the pellet. Many also go through and make sure barrel is true to the action and the probe. Check out what AZ does to airguns that he tunes it is very in depth.
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I’ve read the terms choked and unchoked barrels… what does that mean exactly? Is it tightening vs loosening the diameter of a barrel, or am I way off? Thanks in advance for your reply!
 
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John spysir Blount said:
Zebra,
I'm basing the old Career rifles having "Walther" NOT "LW" barrels on the word of ARS the Importer. Whomever "Walther" is the barrels were outstanding, and, long gone unless Davis has one in his Barn.

Some ( RAW anyway) top end rig comes with hand polished barrels, that's the first way they know one isn't exactly too good and cant be used, they are "hand selected" just like if you call AZ , he grabs a barrel, inspects it, polishes it, laps it, inspects it, test fires it, maybe it's good - hopefully as they do get expensive- maybe not, if not the process starts over. IF a manufacturer doesn't have a pile of "failed" barrels ( and most do not as they just buy them, machine then, install them and sell them) well you can figure it out.

Can a person lap/polish at home?
Certainly, and depending on how it goes you "might" make it a better barrel, or, or might now have total scrap metal. Depending on what you are working with, not much to lose on say a Cummings B-3 with a rough bore, a $28.00 marauder barrel or... but when you spend a couple of hundred on a blank "I" personally do not have the skill to lap/polish.
Naturally you never have any idea of how good your barrel is or is not until you've fired it many many times. I believe that if you take most any 16mm LW barrel machine it and mount it, maybe just run a swip of Flitz down the bore and it will shoot as well as most people can at reasonable range, hard core BR and FT shooters may be able to take advantage of better barrels.

John
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Hi John,

Could you expand on “…maybe just run a swip of Flitz down the bore…”? Does that mean just running a few patches with Flitz down the bore? Is that all it takes to get a bore polished up a bit better? How aggressive and/or how many patches would you run through it (if I’m even interpreting that correctly)? Thanks in advance!
 
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Coldking said:
Serious competitors would pay thousands for that magic barrel -
its not so much the ability to shoot several rounds into one hole, but the ability to do this at least 75 times plus sighters --
without the crazy need to constantly clean the barrel of leading --
and so far I haven't found this perfect barrel - thought I had - only to shoot several hundred shots and have it go wild -
the dreaded WTF shots show up! Real match killers ! Right now the chase has gone in the direction of LW polygons -but they are not the perfect barrel either -
the quest continues -
I really think part of the problem is the pellet manufacturer's - needing to up their game. The quality really needs to come up to par with the vast improvements made recently
with air rifles --
Regards'
CK
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New to this all. How often do you (and others reading this) recommend cleaning the barrel to remove leading? Any particular product(s) that work best for doing this in a PCP rifle? Had one person recommend to use nothing but Balistol because anything else might run the risk of breaking down O rings. Agree? Disagree? On my 22 LR’s I like to use BoreTech Rimfire Blend (and sometimes their ‘Eliminator’ and ‘C4 Carbon Remover’ in the throat/chamber) and finish with Slip2000 EWL. Would 1) Rimfire Blend and Slip2000 EWL be safe to use? 2) Would that combo even be a good choice in the event it is safe to use, or are there better options for PCP barrels?

I’m moving into PCP from mostly shooting 22 LR were it seems to be a debate, at least for some, if you should clean the barrel frequently and remove leading as often as possible (like every 10 shots in competition) vs the train of thought that the leading improves things and to leave it alone. Personally I clean my 22 LR semi often, but I can’t say I’ve been convinced of either way being the correct way, despite extensive reading on the subject.

Thanks in advance for any replies!
 
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zebra said:
It depends on the barrel maker. Some of the top brands on the powder burner side offer genuinely custom barrels. By this I mean made with your twist rate, length and number of grooves etc. I don't know how much they charge or how long it takes but I am fairly confident that the answer to both questions would be enough to put me off (given the price and wait for one of their catalog blanks).

Being able to spec a custom high end blank would also require a level of knowledge I don't have. For example: Lilja is one of the only top powder burner barrel brands that also makes an air rifle barrel. They only offer .177 but the twist rate is 1:17 (from memory) - I.e. almost the same as LW. However, LW airgun barrels have 12 grooves whereas Lilja (and Krieger and Benchmark etc) seem to have a max of 6 grooves on any barrels with anything close to air gun twist rates. I have no idea at all why I would want one amount of grooves vs another or who is correct for air guns or if it matters at all.

From what I have read, people on the powder burner side typically do not consider LW barrels to be in the same league as Keiger, Hart, Benchmark and Lilja. Most think they are above average and good for hunting but not for benchrest matches (although, as with everything, some disagree).

The more I read about this topic and the more opinions I am offered, the less I seem to understand.
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I’d second your remarks for the PB world of barrels. LW is considered better than standard, a good buy at its price point, but not what competitors would ever choose among the others you listed.

Did you ever get to try a Benchmark or Lilja on a PCP rifle? What were you’re results if you did? Being more families with those brands from shooting 22 LR, highly interested if they outperformed other options in the PCP world or not.

Thanks for any replies!
 
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Scalf said:
I had a RAW HM 1 000X in25 cal that didn't shoot anywhere near where it should so I took it back to raw. 3 weeks latter i got it back and it shot the same or not as good. Send it to AZ and told him to make it a 30 cal. that shot good. It came back 30 cal and shoots really good. He when over the gun and replaced a lot of parts. Gun shoots great and AZ was great to work with.
He gave me exactly wha t i ask for and the work was flawless.He was very nice and
So easy to talk too. He will give you what
You ask for and no back talk or double ta lk Seemed to be an outstanding man. Any more work will be done e by AZ. He is great
Gun is also great. 900 FPS withv44 .75 JSB pellets. Vortex pellets shot as good as JSB pellets and maybe a littl e better if you weigh them.
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Do you (or anyone else) have contact info for this AZ guy? Sounds like he does outstanding work! I would imagine the price tag reflects it as well though, lol 😂 Can anyone give an idea of what they paid for various types of work they have had done by him?

Thanks in advance for any replies!
 
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BK_SouthBay said:
I have had Shilen barrels (.243 Ackley Improved) and they are precision barrels. If you look at current and recent past competitions in PRS, F-Class and benchrest, you'll see Bartlein is by far the top barrel used by competitors. Others, Hawk Hill are good as well.
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Bartlein definitely takes the major share of top competitors. Proof seems to be growing in those numbers too, but still far behind Bartlein.
 
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emack1984 said:
I'm ding to try a Krieger barrel in my raw or m3 but not sure who woukd machine a blank.
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If you find out please do share! I have a Krieger on a 22 LR machines by DI Precission that is absolutely killer… which makes me wonder if they would be willing to try their hand at doing so for a .22 PCP barrel. DI precisions 1:13 twist 22 LR is known for being on, if not on top, of the podium for 22 LR matches.
 
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allinssd said:
I've been looking for someone to make a couple barrels for me, still haven't found anyone able to on here. Been like 6 months lol.
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If you get info please do come back and share. I’m hoping someone may respond with more info on this AZ fellow. Sounds like he does spectacular work after now having just finished reading every post in this thread, lol 😂
 
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