HW/Weihrauch Who shoots 22 Weihrauchs at 50 yards or more?

[Mycapt65]

I'm collecting information to help diagnosis my lousy results at 50 yard with my 22 Weihrauchs.

If you shoot your 22 caliber Weihrauch at 50 yards (or more) can you please tell me...

1) what is your AVERAGE group size? I say again AVERAGE. Don't be afraid to be truthful. Mine in 22 is around two inches.
2) What pellets work best for you?
3) Which rifle at what FPE?

Thank you. This information may help me figure out what I'm doing wrong with my 22 Weihrauchs at longer ranges.

Thanks
Be well
Ron.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

HW95 .22 @ 610 fps. 1.25-1.50 average with H&N FTT. off my camera tripod.

I can keep them about 1" off bags over the hood of the jeep. When the angels sing I can get a 5 shot group 3/4" ctc.

My Diana 34 is easier to shoot. It's not so jumpy. Still my patterns are averaging 1.25-1.5 at 50. Same pellets at 640 fps.

Spfingers really take concentration and practice. 25 yard groups are easy. Past 40 they can be miserable if you are torquing the gun or are holding it tight.

I struggle to shoot well at targets at 50 yards. I like .40 cal dots to aim at. The bigger the black the bigger my patterns. I always shoot a few wild 10 shot groups and a couple nice ones. But when I switch to an object like a plastic dinosaur or a shotgun shell I rarely ever miss one.

The farther out the more critical your shooting is. All my rifles shoot fine at 50 and will probably do 3/4" if I didn't screw things up. I often chase problems that don't exist. Even when I find a broken spring or a torn seal it's usually me that is the problem with accuracy.

 

[peaceful_ruler]

I am following this with interest as I have never owned or used a .22 springer. I have used and owned multiple .177 Weihrauchs(3 currently). I’m of the opinion that the .177 is superior in almost every facet except maybe in 15+fpe rifles and when maximum down range energy is desired. Even with those factors, I just feel that the pros of the .177 springers almost always outweigh the cons.

Hold sensitivity and dwell time are keys to accuracy with springers imho.

Of the six .177 Weihrauch springers(5 break barrels) that I’ve owned, only one gave me significant accuracy woes to the point that I wanted to sell it. I’m pretty particular too, if it doesn’t shoot dimes at 20 yards it’s not going to cut it.

Presently, my main gun is a tuned HW98 in .177 with a custom stock that is pushing 8.44s at 850 fps(13.5 fpe). I shot two groups at 50 meters(55 yards) off the front porch the other evening right at last shooting light with a 12X scope and both were under an inch. Both would have actually been under 3/4” but one of the groups had a flier.

I’m not trying to be a douchebag over here and make it sound like whatever you can do I can do better but really…are sub 1” groups at 50 yards a rarity with .22 springers?

 

[Kpac]

I am following this with interest as I have never owned or used a .22 springer. I have used and owned multiple .177 Weihrauchs(3 currently). I’m of the opinion that the .177 is superior in almost every facet except maybe in 15+fpe rifles and when maximum down range energy is desired. Even with those factors, I just feel that the pros of the .177 springers almost always outweigh the cons.

Hold sensitivity and dwell time are keys to accuracy with springers imho.

Of the six .177 Weihrauch springers(5 break barrels) that I’ve owned, only one gave me significant accuracy woes to the point that I wanted to sell it. I’m pretty particular too, if it doesn’t shoot dimes at 20 yards it’s not going to cut it.

Presently, my main gun is a tuned HW98 in .177 with a custom stock that is pushing 8.44s at 850 fps(13.5 fpe). I shot two groups at 50 meters(55 yards) off the front porch the other evening right at last shooting light with a 12X scope and both were under an inch. Both would have actually been under 3/4” but one of the groups had a flier.

I’m not trying to be a douchebag over here and make it sound like whatever you can do I can do better but really…are sub 1” groups at 50 yards a rarity with .22 springers?

I agree 177 mine i could put hole in a hole at 50 to 75 yards no problem but this one was cost a few bucks lol

 

[peaceful_ruler]

I agree 177 mine i could put hole in a hole at 50 to 75 yards no problem but this one was cost a few bucks lol View attachment 493395

I hate to assume that you don’t realize…fairly certain the OP is only interested in .22 springers in this thread.

 

[Kpac]

I hate to assume that you don’t realize…fairly certain the OP is only interested in .22 springers in this thread.

Oh i am was just throwing it out there

 

[Just Zack 2]

Ron, it's been a while since I had my .22 HW97K lami out. Last time chronied it was making 16fpe with 14.3's (old stock CPHP's). Accuracy with them was about 1.25" to 1.75" at 50 to 53 yards shooting rested. Inconsistent pellet size would cause split groups and occasional fliers with those pellets, resulting in said group sizes. 30 yards and in those pellets did well enough so I just stuck with them for plinking. Been meaning to give the bore a good cleaning and shoot some H&N FTT's, can/will post back if you haven't sorted things out by then...

 

[Sawney Bean]

I'm collecting information to help diagnosis my lousy results at 50 yard with my 22 Weihrauchs.

If you shoot your 22 caliber Weihrauch at 50 yards (or more) can you please tell me...

1) what is your AVERAGE group size? I say again AVERAGE. Don't be afraid to be truthful. Mine in 22 is around two inches.
2) What pellets work best for you?
3) Which rifle at what FPE?

Thank you. This information may help me figure out what I'm doing wrong with my 22 Weihrauchs at longer ranges.

Thanks
Be well
Ron.

I'd be thrilled if my .22 HW45 shot that well. Thats the only. 22 HW I own.

 

[maxtrouble]

@Mycapt65 - I rarely shoot paper targets with springers. I shoot springers at soup cans and steel. Favorite .22 is the HW50 tuned with a HO Vortek kit, about 13 fpe. I often have winds in excess of 10 miles an hour so groups go to hell in a hand basket real quick. When I start holding for wind I am guessing at that point where the pellet will hit. If I can hit this ten times in the wind I am happy. This is my favorite springer spinner. Paint it white and it is easier to see hits.

Air Venturi Spin-O-Matic Airgun Target | Pyramyd AIR

We've got a great price on Air Venturi Spin-O-Matic Airgun Target at Pyramyd AIR. Shop where the experts do!

www.pyramydair.com

 

[Bedrock Bob]

It sounds like everyone has about the same results.

In perfect conditions a springer will shoot about 1.25 or better at 50 yds. Some much better. But the most common denominator for poor patterns are the shooter.

I have accepted the fact that the rifle shoots better than I do. I really want to blame the gun/scope/pellet for a crappy day or two. Sadly it boils down to ME or the wind almost every damn time. And the wind don't care.

A springer has a limited maximum accurate range. So do the pellets they shoot. If a rifleman can shoot to the limitations of the rifle he has done his job. Then he may need a better rifle.

My HW97K thrills me with 3/4" groups at 50 yards ONCE IN A WHILE. My 6mm BR will shoot 3/4" groups at 150 yards any day of the week. But they are completely different animals.

That's why I don't shoot much paper with an air rifle. It's frustrating. I only use paper to sight in and test pellets. Once that's complete the paperwork is done.

I can't regularly hit a 1" dot on paper at 50 yards with any springer i own. But I can hit a shotgun shell at that range almost every time. I'm printing 4" patterns at 100 if I'm lucky. But I can hit a shotgun shell at that range 50% or better.

For me a paper target is a bummer because you focus on your margin of error on each shot. The shotgun shells celebrate your hits. Your misses teach you a lesson and then are promptly forgotten. The lesson remains.

If I was interested in shooting patterns with an spring air rifle I'd do it at 10 and 25. You can get fine accuracy and excellent skill development. And your groups are exciting. Past that a spring rifle is tough to shoot into a dot for a bunch of good reasons.

 

[Sawney Bean]

It sounds like everyone has about the same results.

In perfect conditions a springer will shoot about 1.25 or better at 50 yds. Some much better. But the most common denominator for poor patterns are the shooter.

I have accepted the fact that the rifle shoots better than I do. I really want to blame the gun/scope/pellet for a crappy day or two. Sadly it boils down to ME or the wind almost every damn time. And the wind don't care.

A springer has a limited maximum accurate range. So do the pellets they shoot. If a rifleman can shoot to the limitations of the rifle he has done his job. Then he may need a better rifle.

My HW97K thrills me with 3/4" groups at 50 yards ONCE IN A WHILE. My 6mm BR will shoot 3/4" groups at 150 yards any day of the week. But they are completely different animals.

That's why I don't shoot much paper with an air rifle. It's frustrating. I only use paper to sight in and test pellets. Once that's complete the paperwork is done.

I can't regularly hit a 1" dot on paper at 50 yards with any springer i own. But I can hit a shotgun shell at that range almost every time. I'm printing 4" patterns at 100 if I'm lucky. But I can hit a shotgun shell at that range 50% or better.

For me a paper target is a bummer because you focus on your margin of error on each shot. The shotgun shells celebrate your hits. Your misses teach you a lesson and then are promptly forgotten. The lesson remains.

If I was interested in shooting patterns with an spring air rifle I'd do it at 10 and 25. You can get fine accuracy and excellent skill development. And your groups are exciting. Past that a spring rifle is tough to shoot into a dot for a bunch of good reasons.

Pinpointing the reason for inaccuracy with a springer is really hard, since so much of it is dependent on technique and good technique gets harder as the gun gets more powerful. When I'm having a good day with my TX200,1/2" five shot groups at 50 yards are fairly common. When it was tuned to 17 fpe they were somewhat rare. Determining whether the inaccuracy is due to you, the gun or both is often difficult. I'm sure there are people out there that could have shot my TX well at 17 fpe, just like there are people that can shoot MOA with iron sights, but I'm not one of them.

I'm also guessing that we've all wasted hours trying to get an inaccurate gun to shoot well thinking that maybe we're just using the wrong pellet or we're holding it wrong, or... I've got an Air Venturi Springfield M1A that's been frustrating me for awhile now. It doesn't shoot groups, it shoots patterns. I'm at the point where I need to start doing things like recrowning the muzzle to figure out what the hell is wrong with it.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

I have a couple Hatsan 95's. I have never shot a good pattern from a rest. 1.25 at 25 if you are lucky. At 50 yards you need a dot on a pizza box.

Pick either of those guns up and hold it offhand and they will hit a shotgun shell at 35 yards one after another. Sitting with your elbows on your knees they will hit a dime at 35. I can stand offhand and hit a soup can at 65 yards a dozen shots in a row.

Lay the gun on a rest and your groups go in the toilet no matter how steady you are. That soup can at 65 will piss you off.

I took the scopes off and shoot them bare. Offhand or sitting with elbows on my knees. They are my favorite guns to shoot. Definitely not the most accurate.

It's all about handling the vibration. You can't fight it. You vibrate with it. Your body does that well. A bag dosent.

My HW97k sucks off a bag too. It takes 50 shots to figure out how to hold it. Off a camera tripod it shoots a tiny group no matter how you hold it.

My Diana 34 shoots good any way you slice it. Steady as a baby's breath. But off a bag it needs a super light touch to get pinpoint accuracy.

My HW95 is a temperamental bitch that can't be tamed. It will amaze you how tight it shoots. Then it starts tossing them in the corn. As soon as you are red in the face it will drop 50 pellets on a shotgun shell at 65 yards. Then it gets grumpy again.

No telling what it likes. I've never figured it out. I just put it down for a nap and it usually wakes up happy.

My observations from my limited experience is that spring rifles are easiest to shoot in natural positions rather than from bags or rests. And they are better suited to training and plinking than targets or accuracy.

 

[EquivalentDelta]

You’re going to struggle with any .22 springer at 50 yards. They don’t have the velocity out of the muzzle, nor the BC, to buck the wind.

Even a 5mph crosswind with a 16fpe JSB heavy is looking at almost 4 moa of wind drift at 50 yards. Imagine the group if the wind is swirling a bit. You’re going to be pulling your hair out.

In a dead flat calm, you can probably squeeze out some 1-2 moa 5 or 10 shot groups.

I tried testing pellets on couple of relatively pedestrian swirly days, at just 20m, and my groups went from 1-2 moa to 3+ moa.

So it may not be you or your kit, just unrealistic expectations.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

You’re going to struggle with any .22 springer at 50 yards. They don’t have the velocity out of the muzzle, nor the BC, to buck the wind.

Even a 5mph crosswind with a 16fpe JSB heavy is looking at almost 4 moa of wind drift at 50 yards. Imagine the group if the wind is swirling a bit. You’re going to be pulling your hair out.

In a dead flat calm, you can probably squeeze out some 1-2 moa 5 or 10 shot groups.

I tried testing pellets on couple of relatively pedestrian swirly days, at just 20m, and my groups went from 1-2 moa to 3+ moa.

So it may not be you or your kit, just unrealistic expectations.

Wind is crazy. As it flows across the ground it's crazy.

A steady wind can (maybe) be anticipated on flat ground. In a desert canyon a slight breeze will do crazy things to a pellet. Contours in the landscape really kill your accuracy as it funnels air moving across it.

In periods of dead calm things go smoothly. But if the air is moving at all you always have big deviations at range.

We regularly shoot at a little aluminum oxygen bottle at 80 yards. It rings beautifully when you hit it. It's about 4" wide and 14" high. It sits on a hill near the mouth of a gully. There is Scrub desert beyond.

In a stiff breeze blowing you can hit it regularly. Even with 6-8" of correction. The pellets blow way off to the left but hit roughly in the same spot.

With a light tumbling breeze or a quartering tailwind you can't hit that bell twice out of five shots. Misses are all points around the target. I have no idea how to dope winds like that. I don't even try anymore.

Doping wind is some voodoo science. I'm a student of the wind. Ive shot a pellet rifle in a New Mexico dust storm for 6 years. I've learned nothing except feel the breeze on your cheek, aim a little toward it and don't expect too much.

Even a gentle variable breeze will kill a 50 yard springer pattern. It's just too much time in the air for a light pellet.

 

[PEP3]

HW50 12.2 fpe and HW30 8 fpe. They both shoot 1.5" groups with FTT's. My 50 yard target is a 2" spinner and these guns make it easy.

 

[Mycapt65]

Here's what I'm getting. I'll get one or two good groups out of the page. And the rest is all over the place. I normally shoot in the morning or late afternoon when the wind is nil. This morning I must of had a slight cross wind with the 95 because the gun was shooting a bit right this afternoon. I went 8 clicks left on the last three groups. The R1 was shot in near dead calm.

 

[SpiralGroove]

I'm collecting information to help diagnosis my lousy results at 50 yard with my 22 Weihrauchs.

If you shoot your 22 caliber Weihrauch at 50 yards (or more) can you please tell me...

1) what is your AVERAGE group size? I say again AVERAGE. Don't be afraid to be truthful. Mine in 22 is around two inches.
2) What pellets work best for you?
3) Which rifle at what FPE?

Thank you. This information may help me figure out what I'm doing wrong with my 22 Weihrauchs at longer ranges.

Thanks
Be well
Ron.

Hey Ron,
It sounds mostly, like your not getting the data you wanted.

I will give you my data which is "old news" to you .......
I've only seen two Weihrauch .22 caliber guns (of 6 tested) which resemble the accuracy gotten from almost every .177 caliber guns I've owned or .20 cal.
Now to be fair, I only tested with .22 cal. CP, H&N FTT and JSB 14.3 pellets. This is likely a weak point in my testing.
I also don't hunt and only target shoot. Guns tested after a full tune were the HW35E, HW50, (3) HW95's and a HW80.

The .20 caliber barrel transformed my worst shooting gun in .22 caliber into my best shooter .... using JSB 13.73 pellets.

 

[Just Zack 2]

All looks within acceptable accuracy limits to me, especially for break barrels. I've always felt the under levers were a bit better at distance, because of their added weight. I think your green laminate needs a brother in .22cal

But really, about nearly every group there looks to have at least 4 of 5 shots on a nickel @50y ...with a spring piston gun. Most folks probably put 4 of 5 on a fifty cent piece @ 50y. I'd maybe look to experiment with different rest materials if you want to tighten grouping further, I'm sure you and those guns are more than capable.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

I have a limbsaver recoil pad on the D34 and the HW97. They are easier to shoot accurately than the rifles that do not. I think they help a lot.

 

[maxtrouble]

Here's what I'm getting. I'll get one or two good groups out of the page. And the rest is all over the place. I normally shoot in the morning or late afternoon when the wind is nil. This morning I must of had a slight cross wind with the 95 because the gun was shooting a bit right this afternoon. I went 8 clicks left on the last three groups. The R1 was shot in near dead calm.

View attachment 493614

View attachment 493615

These groups look great to me. I have crazy wind to deal with at my range. There are at least four different wind currents between me and the target at 55 yards. I have simple marking tape tied to arrows for flags. Many times they are all moving and usually in different directions. Once in awhile in the morning it is calm. Next time the stars align and the flags are not moving, I will shoot some groups.