Why a season on invasive species?

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Dingfelder

Member
Jul 18, 2020
1,125
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Oregon, United States
Hiya all. I'm in Oregon and we have the Eastern Grey Squirrel listed as an invasive species. I spoke with our state wildlife agency to confirm, and they said the season on them starts in September, I think the 15th. My question is: Why? If they are invasive, why wait?

Our state materials on them say that when they move in, they displace our native red tree squirrels within 5 years. England has its own crisis of sorts with invasive greys. So. ... why let them roam around for months when they're invasive and sending native species into extinction?
 
Probably the same agency logic that in California says you need a hunting license for "non-game animals". IDK. Seriously you'd think there would be no season or bag limit for invasives. 

Unless of course, the native red tree squirrels might have a genetic mutation that sometimes makes them "gray".

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Interesting thought. I haven't read or heard about that yet. But our red squirrels have substantially more red on the backs of their forelegs and I think around their jaws and tails, to start. The guys I'm looking at, though, are virtually pure grey where they're not white. I've used my monopod on them to get a nice close look, because I really want to do the right thing. I just wonder if the law is "right" or even makes sense in this case.

Thinking about it a little bit more ... I'd guess it's to keep people from shooting the red squirrels by mistake too often. Sounds likely? It does take some care to distinguish the reds from the greys, and too many mistakes could reduce the red squirrel population as well as the grey squirrel pop. However, I think it's past that point and always in danger of getting there, since the greys displace the reds so fast. I don't see ANY reds around here, and we're backed right up against large tracts of BLM land. Seems to me the risk of shooting reds is probably worse than the risk of letting greys carry on and just wipe the reds out forever.
 
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In Pennsylvania the Red Squirrels will kill any Grey they come in contact with.

The Grey are small game 6 daily limit.

The Reds are invasive pests, whack em on sight.

So whose State is right? Lol 

I'm curious as I find this difference intriguing.
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Some of it must be down to what's invasive and not. Non-natives often have few or no natural predators to keep them in check,since they didn't evolve in that environment.

We can do five greys, in season, a day here, no more than 15 kept at a time, including skins, tails, or body parts.

I'm surprised your reds kill the greys. In Oregon, the greys are bigger.
 
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"The Eastern gray squirrel and Eastern fox squirrel are nonnative invasive species of concern in the state. While their effects on Oregon’s ecosystems are not fully understood, there is enough evidence to consider them a threat to native squirrel populations. They aggressively compete with native squirrels for food and nesting habitat, they require far less territory to persist, and they can spread disease to native populations. For example, the eastern gray squirrel can carry parapoxvir, a disease deadly to red squirrels. Unfortunately, these nonnative squirrels have a high reproductive potential, high vagility (degree to which they can move or spread in an environment), diverse food habits and a high tolerance of human activity which is allowing them to expand their range. Range expansion is also enabled by people who, possibly thinking they are doing the right thing, illegally trap them in urban areas and release them in rural areas." -- From our Dept of Fish and Wildlife.

Unfortunately, on closer re-reading of the documents, while the red vs. eastern gray squirrel is easy to distinguish, I I forgot how much red the eastern grey has vs. the western grey. I'm now sure that what I'm looking at is a protective species here, the Western Grey. *sigh* oh well, between the squirrels and the crows, our native songbirds hardly have a chance. But I have to let the western greys go for a few more weeks. The Easterns can indeed by hunted year round -- but I'm looking at huge squirrels that I think must be Westerns.

Thanks for the feedback, all. You've helped me work out what's going on better than I could without the stimulus of your feedback.
 
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People like to get all nasty and holier than thou with corrections, but I haven't read a straight forward and clear set of laws on anything. Including hunting. But the PA hunting digest states: 

Game Animals
Black bear, cottontail rabbit, elk, squirrel (red, gray, black and fox), snowshoe hare, white-tailed deer and woodchuck (groundhog)

Just so you are aware, James, as I try to be helpful.


 
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That sounds like it was directed at me? as if I were getting nasty and/or holier than thou? I'm sorry if you got that impression. I wasn't trying to do anything like that at all. I don't even know how I could have given that impression. I am trying to work it out, and as noted I appreciate the feedback. It stimulated me to think a little more carefully. And for MY situation, which I realize is completely dependent on MY state and county ... no desire to imply it has anything to do with yours or anyone else's. Honestly I am mystified, as I did not intend to give offense throughout and still do not. I genuinely appreciate your feedback, and this resource. So I thank you all, and apologize sincerely for any unintended offense. It truly was unintended, and that's not the kind of person I am. I hope I will be friendly and helpful enough at all times to change anyone's mind who might not believe that.
 
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The law regarding killing any animal in PA protects all animals except the English Starling which is the only animal listed in the PA Game Commision Rules as having no closed season. Even groundhogs have a season which you are allowed to hunt them in. So they are still protected against any hunting or killing during the off season. Even chipmunks are protected under PA game commission law and have no season but are not mentioned in the PA game commission rule book. The law states you can kill an animal out of season if it is destroying your property but I would bet any money that a game officer would still find that the holes chipmunks dig in your yard or eating your flowers would not negate the law protecting them and you would be fined and possibly loose your gun and hunting privileges for a while. Try explaining your shooting squirrels of any color for raiding your song bird feeder and you will loose. The game commision web site encourages you to use means to discourage invasive species to come on your property rather than to kill them. So by PA game commission laws in PA one can legally only kill English Starlings year round. All other animals not considered game animals are protected and can not be killed unless they are destroying property or livestock and are to be reported to the Game Commision for permission first. Animal listed as game animals can only be killed during the regular hunting season with daily limits. Now one may ask what about rats and mice and pigeons? Well the PA game Commission does not even mention them but their statement says all animals and song birds are protected. I know from experience and from friends that just because it isn’t clearly stated in the rules doesn’t mean it is or isn’t the law in the eyes of the PA game commission. What we do on our own property is still covered by all Game Commision laws. Just saying.
 
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The law regarding killing any animal in PA protects all animals except the English Starling which is the only animal listed in the PA Game Commision Rules as having no closed season. Even groundhogs have a season which you are allowed to hunt them in. So they are still protected against any hunting or killing during the off season. Even chipmunks are protected under PA game commission law and have no season but are not mentioned in the PA game commission rule book. The law states you can kill an animal out of season if it is destroying your property but I would bet any money that a game officer would still find that the holes chipmunks dig in your yard or eating your flowers would not negate the law protecting them and you would be fined and possibly loose your gun and hunting privileges for a while. Try explaining your shooting squirrels of any color for raiding your song bird feeder and you will loose. The game commision web site encourages you to use means to discourage invasive species to come on your property rather than to kill them. So by PA game commission laws in PA one can legally only kill English Starlings year round. All other animals not considered game animals are protected and can not be killed unless they are destroying property or livestock and are to be reported to the Game Commision for permission first. Animal listed as game animals can only be killed during the regular hunting season with daily limits. Now one may ask what about rats and mice and pigeons? Well the PA game Commission does not even mention them but their statement says all animals and song birds are protected. I know from experience and from friends that just because it isn’t clearly stated in the rules doesn’t mean it is or isn’t the law in the eyes of the PA game commission. What we do on our own property is still covered by all Game Commision laws. Just saying.
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That's definitely frightening. :(

Especially since "Try explaining your shooting squirrels of any color for raiding your song bird feeder and you will loose." is exactly what I would like to do.Plus I just like and actually truly believe in getting rid of invasive species. Totally honest here, not bloodthirsty at all. Trying to desensitize myself actually, as I am a city boy and felt like crying when I killed a grouse when I was a kid and was told I probably killed all her babies too because that was the season. Eating it was like choking down poison. I actually like squirrels and think they're cute. Soft-hearted and I want to be responsible. 

I DO want to shoot the "good ones," but will refrain. I WILL! (grrr!) But I really want to shoot the bad ones! Not worried about the federales, but the neighbors finding a squirrel with a pellet in it is a no-go.


 
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I am fortunate that I have same minded neighbors that have gardens and defend them against raiding groundhogs and rabbits all summer long with powder burners. So the occasional blast means another pest bites the dust. I am a shooting enthusiast and have a nice shooting range I belong to only a mile away but my back yard is deep woods but I have close neighbors in front and sides. I could shoot my powder burners but choose not to around the house and that is why I have gotten into PCP airguns. Nobody knows I’m shooting in my back yard, or what I’m shooting. I have a neighbor across the street from me that almost every weekend he gets his AR and semi-auto pistols out and makes a lot of racket which we don’t approve of but don’t complain. Rude but but it’s all about the freedom we have, right? It would only take a complaint from a tree hugging snowflake neighbors about shooting whatever animal to the Game Commission . They would be obligated to respond and it would be up to that particular officer how the outcome would be but being it was a complaint you more than likely would be prosecuted. A couple of years ago a guy shot a bear in his yard that he claimed was attacking his dog. He reported the dead bear to the game commission. The officer investigating it arrested him saying his dog provoked the attack and he was fined and lost his gun. He tried to do the right thing and got burnt. On the other hand I have a neighbor who decided to get a half a dozen exotic breed chickens to raise and show at livestock shows. Weird looking birds not for laying eggs. He built a large fenced cage with coop but left them free range most of the day. Well I work at home and he was constantly shooting . One day he came up to my yard to retrieve one of his dogs out of my yard and I asked what he was shooting at. His reply was he was shooting hawks and owls and an occasional fox and coyote that were attacking his chickens. I asked how many hawks and owls he thought he had shot that summer and he said probably about 50. That floored me as all birds of prey are protected . I personally like birds of prey and would never shoot one as there is a heavy fine . His defense was he was protecting his livestock and had the game commissions permission. WTF! Keep your damn chickens in the coop. We are on the eastern fly way of migrating hawks and he is offering a smorgasbord of show chickens . They are pets not livestock. One day he had 4 bald eagles flying around his property looking at his chickens which luckily were locked up in the pen that day. But what if? 
 
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The off season gives the game and wildlife management the time and safety to poison and or eradicate them at their leisure without getting accidentally shot themselves by a hunter or a stray bullet. 

Got friends who had half dead pests not allowed to be hunted half dead wandered onto on his property. Of course suffered long and agonizing deaths. Definitely poisoned. Witnessed wildlife game management blocks away prior to that.
 
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This just seems so sad to me. A leisurely death filed with misery and pain or a few quick seconds of misery, or even less .. 

I know I would pick a well-placed bullet over poisoning, or perhaps capture and then being lowered into a bucket to drown, as a friend of mine did it ...

... it's so weird that people sometimes make it sound like hunting is CRUEL when doing it properly is NOT! I've done the poisoning, the trapping thing, and I'm a big ole softy and still feel a well-placed bullet must be so much kinder. I actually made my first pellet gun purchase just because of that .. the pests had to go but I didnt want to be cruel ...
 
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This just seems so sad to me. A leisurely death filed with misery and pain or a few quick seconds of misery, or even less .. 

I know I would pick a well-placed bullet over poisoning, or perhaps capture and then being lowered into a bucket to drown, as a friend of mine did it ...

... it's so weird that people sometimes make it sound like hunting is CRUEL when doing it properly is NOT! I've done the poisoning, the trapping thing, and I'm a big ole softy and still feel a well-placed bullet must be so much kinder. I actually made my first pellet gun purchase just because of that .. the pests had to go but I didnt want to be cruel ...
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Hunting is the most ethical and honoring thing you can do. Behind every hunter is an animal lover. Behind every legislative force is just more bureaucracy; it isn’t right but the law is the law and conform to what we have to and be a shining beacon so that people know that hunters care for wildlife.
 
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