Why aren't there more M3's in HFT?

[tpw037]

I have been looking at this subject for a while and cannot find anything or anyone that can give a solid answer. I've looked through the results posts and it appears that Palmyra indoor FT has a few people that shoot M3's, but that seems to be it. I'm kinda stumped. I have an M3 in .30 and I can stack holes all day long at 30yds with an UTG scope of all things. A lot of winning guns at EBR are M3's. They are proven to be very accurate. You would figure that it would make sense that more people would be using M3's in HFT for the accuracy they have.

I don't want to open a can of worms with people who are for, or against, M3's in general, but I would like to hear real world experiences. Are they just not as accurate in .177? Or accurate at 20 fpe? Are they too heavy? Etc.? I know Daystate seems to dominate in HFT, but is it just a matter of the sheep following the shepherd? The reason I bought the impact in the first place was because it won, or at least had major places in RMAC and EBR. It must be a great rifle right? Or is it just over represented? I fell for the hype but I'm very happy with the purchase and would do it again.

So here is the crux. I want to get into HFT but I don't want to buy a whole new rig. I just bought a 700mm .177 barrel, and a new Athlon Helos, and a boat load of pellets. I'm starting to feel nervous that I may have made a mistake. I guess my question is for people who have used, or directly know someone who has used a M3 and can give an unbiased reason for or against.

Please remember that this not the place to to praise nor bash the M3 in general. It is strictly about the pros and cons of the M3's use in HFT.

Let the comments begin!

 

[Solo1]

Fx 177 just don’t cut it get something else

 

[BrazosbyNemo]

They suck.

 

[thomasair]

If it's all you have, don't worry about it and just go do it.

 

[Franklink]

Consistency is a huge part of field target.

It's hard enough to be consistent as the gun operator. Add an inconsistent gun.....

A gun's ability to maintain point of impact is arguably the number one requirement of a field target gun.

But as Mike said, if that's what you got, give it a whirl and see if you like it enough to buy a consistent field target performer.

 

[cavedweller]

I have been looking at this subject for a while and cannot find anything or anyone that can give a solid answer. I've looked through the results posts and it appears that Palmyra indoor FT has a few people that shoot M3's, but that seems to be it. I'm kinda stumped. I have an M3 in .30 and I can stack holes all day long at 30yds with an UTG scope of all things. A lot of winning guns at EBR are M3's. They are proven to be very accurate. You would figure that it would make sense that more people would be using M3's in HFT for the accuracy they have.

I don't want to open a can of worms with people who are for, or against, M3's in general, but I would like to hear real world experiences. Are they just not as accurate in .177? Or accurate at 20 fpe? Are they too heavy? Etc.? I know Daystate seems to dominate in HFT, but is it just a matter of the sheep following the shepherd? The reason I bought the impact in the first place was because it won, or at least had major places in RMAC and EBR. It must be a great rifle right? Or is it just over represented? I fell for the hype but I'm very happy with the purchase and would do it again.

So here is the crux. I want to get into HFT but I don't want to buy a whole new rig. I just bought a 700mm .177 barrel, and a new Athlon Helos, and a boat load of pellets. I'm starting to feel nervous that I may have made a mistake. I guess my question is for people who have used, or directly know someone who has used a M3 and can give an unbiased reason for or against.

Please remember that this not the place to to praise nor bash the M3 in general. It is strictly about the pros and cons of the M3's use in HFT.

Let the comments begin!

My take is buy mission specific equipment and avoid quick change rigs as recreating tune and dope is anything but quick especially when zero needs redone

 

[tpw037]

Here's the thing. At least in my .30 cal I'm stacking pellets. How is that not accurate or consistent?

 

[Motorhead]

Yup RELIABLE & CONSISTENT rules the day, tomorrow, next week, next month.
If your rifle Can Not keep a stable POI you can't trust it, it will fool with your mind never being focused on shooting to your potential because you'll never know if a YOU thing or a RIFLE thing when targets get missed

 

[Motorhead]

Here's the thing. At least in my .30 cal I'm stacking pellets. How is that not accurate or consistent?

Because it has NOTHING to do with the HFT question

 

[Franklink]

Here's the thing. At least in my .30 cal I'm stacking pellets. How is that not accurate or consistent?

You'd of course need to swap the barrel (and likely other parts?) to a .177 but the consistency thing is a cold shot situation. On top of the cold shots, you get ZERO sighters in field target once the match starts.

Where we see the Impacts doing well is competitions that allow both rezeroing and unlimited sighters before AND especially DURING a match.

 

[tpw037]

That does make sense. That was the first good answer. I do have to dry fire about 10 rounds before I can even start shooting at targets.

 

[Motorhead]

That does make sense. That was the first good answer. I do have to dry fire about 10 rounds before I can even start shooting at targets.

That would be a killer ... If your Reg creeps in @ 10 min+ intervals ( Time between lanes ) with any PCP in the FT game you will have accuracy issues.

 

[BrazosbyNemo]

I was just kidding about the “they suck” comment. I don’t even know what an M3 is. If you can get it to legal power levels then shoot it.

 

[scotton]

This is more of a suspicion than a fact, so take it with a grain of salt. I've always thought that the reason why certain guns do better at FT is because they were originally designed for shooting .177 pellets at 12 fpe or less. So Daystates, RAWs (originally Theobens), Air Arms, Walthers, Steyrs, etc. It seems that when someone takes a high powered, larger caliber gun and tries to tune it down to shoot <20fpe with .177 pellets, things don't go as well. I suspect it's mostly barrel related, but the power cycle may have something to do with it as well. My Delta Wolf is a tack driver with the .30 barrel shooting at 95ish fpe. It is also a tack driver shooting .177 13.4 JSBs at 20 fpe. It is also very accurate shooting 8.44s at 12 fpe.

Having said all of that, I have seen a couple of M3s used for field target and they seem to be fine. But you can't swing a cat without hitting 10 Red Wolfs and RAW HM1000s that are getting on the podium. I wasn't aware of the cold bore issue, but that could be a problem when there may be 15+ minutes between lanes. If it was just one or two shots needed, you could just blow a couple off when you sit down on a lane, but blowing off 10 shots on every lane would be excessive. If the cold bore is predictable and lasts for 10 shots, you could just shoot every lane with a cold bore. In any case, I would recommend using a single shot loader, not a magazine.

 

[davecole]

Step 1. Don't fret whether the model of your gun is a podium finisher or not. Focus on having fun and enjoying the comeradie. The winning will come in due time with due diligence. If you could take a peek behind the curtain of the future, you'd be able to see you will own (many) other guns in the future. It happens to all of us.
Step 2. Configure the gun to shoot within the rules. If you are having reg creep, yeah you will have to fix that.
Step 3. Get with some of the guys at the club you will be shooting the most at. They will be able to offer you invaluable experienced insight into the protocol of having a great FT match experience.
Step 3a. Don't believe all the crap you read or see on the internet...... It is, by the way, the internet.....
Step 4. HAVE FUN!!
Step 5. Go back out to the next match and repeat Step 4.

 

[Pea-shooter O.G.]

I don't have an M3, but, I will say, if your gun is consistent/repeatable/accurate, I would not hesitate to show up to a match and shoot what ya got. It allows you to get your feel and see what you like about your setup or dislike. And you get to see what other folks are shooting or other equipment.

 

[Cranky1]

I wonder if the larger plenum and possibly creeping reg(mine does some may play into it not being used much in field target.

 

[zx10wall]

The Impact is built with big power in mind. They’ve focused more on .22 and up. FX regs have a habit of creep. As Cole explained, at bench with sighters, you can adjust that wondering POI and you’re good for the session. A lot of FT folks shy from bullpups, not me. Bullpups inherently have higher mountings for their scopes. This amplified deficiencies! I’ve done well with the Kalibrgun Cricket and the BRK Ghost.

 

[tpw037]

Forgive my lack of expertise and experience but if huma regs are better wouldn't it make sense to replace the stock regs? In theory that would make for a better rifle and better at shooting cold. Has anyone replaced the stock regs and had better results?

Regardless, I feel that the "cold bore" is the real issue. To be clear, I don't have to shoot 10 shots every 15 minutes if the gun sits. On average, "reg creep" takes a good 30 minutes to set in. Even after 30 min it might take 1dry shot to get back to consistent levels. After an hour or 2, yup, another 10 to warm it up.

 

[thane]

I have shot many HFT matches with my M3, even won a few. I swapped 2 .177 liners and had 2 Lothar Walther slow polys fitted due to POI shifts.
Much better with the LW barrel, I don't experience much creep, most of the shifting seems to be related to numerous connections with small fasteners.
I am using a much simplified USFT with greater results, simplicity really helps with consistency,