Why aren't there more M3's in HFT?

[Solo1]

I shot a maverick for a year first time i shot my red wolf i beat my highest score. Got a ghost and stopped shooting the red wolf. Have a friend shot a m3 for a year got a crown beet his best score with the m3 first match out. My thoughts are that in the larger calibers the m3 and maverick have too many parts bolted together and move with temp change and it doesn’t affect the larger calibers as much as 177

 

[qball]

As usual many people will jump in to bash FX especially the 177 flavor, while some claim they had bad experience but doubt it or user error. I've been shooting my Dreamline aka cheapest of all FX in WFTF and doing just fine. M3 can be very good but being a bullpup the ergonomic and hold could take some getting use to. If tuned right the impact will absolutely shine in HFT, key phrase is tuned right. Lots of adjustments=lots of user errors.

EDIT: M3 doesn't suffer the same POI shift the older Impacts had.

 

[Solo1]

As usual many people will jump in to bash FX especially the 177 flavor, while some claim they had bad experience but doubt it or user error. I've been shooting my Dreamline aka cheapest of all FX in WFTF and doing just fine. M3 can be very good but being a bullpup the ergonomic and hold could take some getting use to. If tuned right the impact will absolutely shine in HFT, key phrase is tuned right. Lots of adjustments=lots of user errors.

EDIT: M3 doesn't suffer the same POI shift the older Impacts had.

Your shooting a dreamline and going to tell us how a m3 shoots?

 

[Milf Dots]

Pardon this noob question, what is HFT? And what is WFTF?

 

[Franklink]

To agree with the original poster that there are VERY few Impacts in AAFTA FT isn't bashing.

The FX Impact has its place, and has a fair share of wins under its belt...but those wins aren't in the game of consistency known as field target.

 

[Solo1]

Pardon this noob question, what is HFT? And what is WFTF?

Hft is hunter field target and wftf is world field target federation. Wftf is how the game started hunter is popular in the usa. If you know nothing about the sport go to aafta.org and thats where the rules are for usa

AAFTA

American Airgun Field Target Association

www.aafta.org

Great sport lots of fun and you will make a friend or 2

 

[qball]

Your shooting a dreamline and going to tell us how a m3 shoots?

In case you aren’t aware most people talk crap about FX in 177 caliber/barrel. FX guns all use the same barrel and I've shot HFT with my crown with short little 380mm barrel. Impact is just another form factor but you can have your own opinion cause you shot FX impact in HFT and it was horrible right?

WFTF shooters generally demands a bit more from their guns than HFT shooters, HFT is FAR more popular in the US.

Pardon this noob question, what is HFT? And what is WFTF?

HFT is 20FPE or lower, you can shoot with aid/support such as shooting sticks and elevated seating position such as a small stool or bucks. Major limitation is 16x scope/setting and can't use the elevation and windage adjustment.

WFTF is 12 FPE or lower, no shooting sticks or any shooting aid/support, no seating higher than 6 inches but unlimited scope magnification and can use elevation adjustment.

There are other rules obviously but these are the major ones.

 

[steve123]

POI shifts are the #1 enemy of good scores in FT.
Some guns I've had were practically unusable for FT because of this. I'd seriously rather do chores around the house than shoot a match with 'shifts' happening because otherwise its frustrating and I feel like its a waste of time!
Shooting at circle shaped KZ's with wind involved means that if you are slightly high or low you'll probably split the pellet on the faceplate. Now imagine if the KZ was square and you were high or low slightly but figured the windage adequately your hit ratio would increase quite a bit.

USFT and Thomas are my favorites for maintaining zero in FT. A reliable scope and good rings also help a lot. Had shifts from them too before.

 

[NAProf]

In case you aren’t aware most people talk crap about FX in 177 caliber/barrel. FX guns all use the same barrel and I've shot HFT with my crown with short little 380mm barrel. Impact is just another form factor but you can have your own opinion cause you shot FX impact in HFT and it was horrible right?

WFTF shooters generally demands a bit more from their guns than HFT shooters, HFT is FAR more popular in the US.



HFT is 20FPE or lower, you can shoot with aid/support such as shooting sticks and elevated seating position such as a small stool or bucks. Major limitation is 16x scope/setting and can't use the elevation and windage adjustment.

WFTF is 12 FPE or lower, no shooting sticks or any shooting aid/support, no seating higher than 6 inches but unlimited scope magnification and can use elevation adjustment.

There are other rules obviously but these are the major ones.

Hi Guys,
I agree with qball - any rifle can be used to shoot in Field Target, but consistency is the name of the game. The best Field Target shooter I know shoots an older FX Royal 400 with a Nikko scope and he won Nationals. His take is that you need to know your equipment and work on consistency. My shooting has improved a lot once I settled on my Crown MkII .177 500mm and have shot a ton in practice. Still need work on wind holds and offhand shooting, but my rifle is consistent and my Falcon X50 ranges really well. I managed to shoot a 200/200 w/17x's in the AGN Target Shooting Forum 30-yard Challange. So, I don't think the equipment is holding me back in Field Target.

Cheers,
Greg

 

[AirNGasman]

"Step 3a. Don't believe all the crap you read or see on the internet...... It is, by the way, the internet......"

Wait... WHAT?

What planet you from, Dude? Ohhhhh...

Oklahoma! That 'splains it.

.

 

[jps2486]

I assume you've never shot FT. The M3 is a rifle with potential for very high power. Throttling it down to shoot .177 below 20 fpe is a waste. Besides. from all my experimentation, most FX rifles in .177 aren't terribly accurate. The older Royals would be a much better choice. Many might disagree on that. There are so many rifles out there that have been developed and used for years in FT, such as Air Arms HFT 500, S-500, RAWs, Daystates, Thomases and others that have a DEMONSTRATED history of success, why consider an M3?

 

[Solo1]

My problem with qball’s response is that he is comparing fx apples to fx oranges note that the guns he is talking about are standard looking rifles compared to a bullpup that is bolted together in many places. He is also comparing a royal which has a completely different barrel than the m3. If you wish to make any sense shoot a m3 in field target and then talk about your results qball!

 

[qball]

My problem with qball’s response is that he is comparing fx apples to fx oranges note that the guns he is talking about are standard looking rifles compared to a bullpup that is bolted together in many places. He is also comparing a royal which has a completely different barrel than the m3. If you wish to make any sense shoot a m3 in field target and then talk about your results qball!

While I see what you are trying to say but I have 2 impacts and tuned many and they can be incredibly accurate and consistent at any power level if tuned correctly, in fact their complex valve system is designed to be table to tuned for very tight spread. I’ve shot them on the sticks in HFT style too and I actually think bullpups are very well made for HFT style.

 

[qball]

I assume you've never shot FT. The M3 is a rifle with potential for very high power. Throttling it down to shoot .177 below 20 fpe is a waste. Besides. from all my experimentation, most FX rifles in .177 aren't terribly accurate. The older Royals would be a much better choice. Many might disagree on that. There are so many rifles out there that have been developed and used for years in FT, such as Air Arms HFT 500, S-500, RAWs, Daystates, Thomases and others that have a DEMONSTRATED history of success, why consider an M3?

Yes, using an impact is a bit overkill but it’s the only gun OP has to try the game so it’s not a waste if you ask me.

My practice at 35 yard target is to see if I can hit my first 177 pellet hole with my second. To say the current FX 177 barrels are not accurate indicates something isn’t right and a lot has to do with the tune or the shooter. For reference I don’t shoot any higher scores with my Thomas, in fact my best score is shot with my Dreamline which cost 1/4 of my Thomas with a scope that cost 1/6 of the scope on the Thomas.

 

[davit66]

I started shooting FT last year after I ordered a 600mm .177 barrel for my M3. Once tuned to shoot the JSB 10.34 pellets, it was accurate and consistent. My scores improved as I practiced standing and kneeling shots well as my hold over skills. My only ‘complaint’ with the M3 is the trigger pull is a bit heavy but I learned to work with it.
My reason for not using my M3 in FT anymore is it’s a great varmint gun and I leave it set up with a larger caliber. I have four other guns that I use for FT. But I have no doubt if I converted it back to .177, I could do just as well with it as I do with my other guns.
Get out there and enjoy your first year of FT shooting! Good luck.

 

[tpw037]

I knew my original question would be stirring up a s*** show. From the research that I've been able to do, with a few helpful comments from you guys, it appears that the M3's flaw is in the cold shot. I'm not going to get into it here but there is a 40 page thread on the flaw and how to fix it. It's not reg creep. It's not a shifting poi (per se). It's not accuracy. There was a design flaw or overlooked result of engineering. The M3 is reliable in those. I think the consensus is that the shooter also has to have an in depth feel and knowledge for their rifle.

You can have the most accurate weapon in the world, and you know that it shoots 3mm low and 1mm to the left on its first few shots and you compensate for it, onlookers will think it's the gun not the shooter. Right?

The best snipers in the world make adjustments for the tools they are using because they know, no rifle is perfect, but they know how to use theirs!

I'm not saying that the M3 is perfect, I'm not saying it should be used more in FT. What I was trying to get at is; that's what I have now and was wondering why they are not used more, which I think I got the answer to. I've seen the results from Palmyra's matches and it appears that there's a few who use them with what looks like winning results, so that's where my question was born from.

This is not going to be popular but I feel the need to say it. Maybe I'm wrong. I've been known to be.

For those of you who have never owned an M3 and are bashing it, for those of you who feel that your rifle is the only one that will ever be able to win, for those of you who have such a strong opinion as to not even listen to another point of view; you should be ashamed.

I'm an new to this and am looking for guidance and advice since I don't know. I heard that the FT community is very open and very willing to teach the younger generation the sport that they love. I didn't get that from the comments. There is no one that I am pointing out, nor any particular comment, it just feels that the general thread went to bashing instead of helping.

If I'm wrong I apologize. That was just the overall feel that I got. Maybe we can correct this or put it to an end. Everyone has their own opinion, every brand, every model, every individual rifle is different. I thank all of you for the comments. I have gained some insight and I hope that I can still try to get into the sport with EVERYONE'S advice and experience.

 

[NAProf]

My problem with qball’s response is that he is comparing fx apples to fx oranges note that the guns he is talking about are standard looking rifles compared to a bullpup that is bolted together in many places. He is also comparing a royal which has a completely different barrel than the m3. If you wish to make any sense shoot a m3 in field target and then talk about your results qball!

Solo1,
I think you are mistaken. I am the one who brought up the FX Royal. I did that because the really good shooter who uses it thinks that the most important part of FT is knowing how to use your equipment and being consistent it its use, not what equipment you are using. You are entitled to your opinion based on your experience with some particular piece of equipment but be assured that there is someone out there with exactly the opposite experience to yours.
IMHO the best points brought up here about the Impact is that with all of its available power and ability to be tuned it might be a case of overkill to be using it as a 20FPE rifle. I shot a Maverick when I first started FT and while it was very accurate at targets in my backyard I shot poorly at FT. I wasn't good at reading the wind, I was poor at ranging, and I didn't have enough experience to be confident in my equipment. I ended up turning the Maverick into a 100 yd slug shooter because it could do that easily and got a Crown to be my dedicated FT rifle. I've spent a lot of time shooting the Crown at FT targets and the practice and experience has help me improve a lot.

Cheers,
Greg

 

[cavedweller]

Here's the thing. At least in my .30 cal I'm stacking pellets. How is that not accurate or consistent?

.30 is not used in FT or HFT however you could use it in EFT and it sounds like you will win the competition by stacking pellets at 100 yards.

 

[tpw037]

I know the .30 is not used. In my original post I started, I bought a . 177 kit and was wondering and worrying I would regret it. BTW I just got it today, put the CF sleeve on it. Tomorrow I will take the entire valve assembly apart and make the "fix" and put in the new barrel. Maybe it will work maybe not?

@cavedweller I have read allot of your posts and respect your opinions and knowledge. I'd love to learn more from you. You're not in the upper East Coast by chance?

 

[Franklink]

I knew my original question would be stirring up a s*** show....

I'm an new to this and am looking for guidance and advice since I don't know. I heard that the FT community is very open and very willing to teach the younger generation the sport that they love. I didn't get that from the comments. There is no one that I am pointing out, nor any particular comment, it just feels that the general thread went to bashing instead of helping.

If I'm wrong I apologize. That was just the overall feel that I got. Maybe we can correct this or put it to an end. Everyone has their own opinion, every brand, every model, every individual rifle is different. I thank all of you for the comments. I have gained some insight and I hope that I can still try to get into the sport with EVERYONE'S advice and experience.

Not sure anybody should be ashamed.....you already knew the answer to your question. Other than the one guy who jokingly said "they suck." (And then came back to very clearly say he meant it as a joke) there wasn't much bashing here.

Simply put, and as was commented by many here trying to help answer your question, an FX Impact is not the best tool for the job ("job" being sub20fpe for AAFTA FT). Again, that's not a bash. If an Impact WAS the best tool for AAFTA field target, there would be many more in use.

Since you've got the .177 barrel, go to a local match and have fun with the Impact. Very few field target shooters are running the same gun they started with, so switching to something better suited or that offers a perceived advantage in some way is pretty much par for the course in field target. But your .177 barrel kit is a great starting point to see if you like field target.