Why headshots

[intenseaty22]

Just took a headshot on one this morning. It was halfway up the pecan tree and I could have chosen either shot, vitals or head. Took aim and let it fly. hades to the head and I could clearly see the reaction. It clung with it's rear claws to the tree bark as a steady deluge of blood poured out and down the trunk of the tree. I went inside for a minute and by the time I came out it was on the ground, so I went to retrieve it. Still breathing and in agony! I had to pump another one into it. The shot was good, but ever so slightly to the left, closer to the eye, approaching from the top of the head as it was vertical on the tree. Have taken plenty of very effective head shots before, this kind of thing just happens with either shot placement. Head shots just leave a little bit less room for error, so I take them when I feel good about shot placement, but even then....

The second one this morning took one to the face if you will. I'm sure the pellet traveled into the brain stem and or the neck. It flopped around quite a bit, but did expire after all the dancing around, no need for a follow up.

The third one I took got a perfect shoulder POI. It took off and ran for like 5 yards and then just stoped in it's tracks and was done right there.

In the end, I still think that either shot placement is appropriate and the only thing that changes for me is how I feel about it at the moment, what my instincts say, and how the quarry presents itself.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@intenseaty22 Were all of your shots taken with .177 Hades this morning? I don’t know if they make Hades in .177 so I thought I’d ask.

 

[intenseaty22]

@intenseaty22 Were all of your shots taken with .177 Hades this morning? I don’t know if they make Hades in .177 so I thought I’d ask.

No, and my apologies as I didn’t specify. Taipan in .22, Hades at 22fpe, about 29 yards out and maybe 8 yards up the tree.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@intenseaty22
Those are nice rifles. How far out have you tested or pested using Hades pellets effectively? Which caliber and gun did you use on your farthest shots shooting Hades pellets?

 

[intenseaty22]

@intenseaty22
Those are nice rifles. How far out have you tested or pested using Hades pellets effectively? Which caliber and gun did you use on your farthest shots shooting Hades pellets?

Probably no more than 40 yards. I have shot the gun with impressive results at 100 yards, but not optimal test. So I would never shoot an animal at that distance. Hades are really accurate if your gun likes them. I’m positive I can make it count at least out to 60 yards, but that’s not something I have actually done.

The Cricket 2 is a 42fpe gun, then the RTI is a 65fpe gun, both in .22, but I haven’t done that testing either.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@intenseaty22 No more they 4 yards? In regards to what exactly? I’m lost on that part.

 

[intenseaty22]

@intenseaty22 No more they 4 yards? In regards to what exactly? I’m lost on that part.

Typo…… 40 yards not 4

 

[Ezana4CE]

@intenseaty22 Got it. That sounds like straight havoc on a skull.

 

[Hard2hurt223]

Just took a headshot on one this morning. It was halfway up the pecan tree and I could have chosen either shot, vitals or head. Took aim and let it fly. hades to the head and I could clearly see the reaction. It clung with it's rear claws to the tree bark as a steady deluge of blood poured out and down the trunk of the tree. I went inside for a minute and by the time I came out it was on the ground, so I went to retrieve it. Still breathing and in agony! I had to pump another one into it. The shot was good, but ever so slightly to the left, closer to the eye, approaching from the top of the head as it was vertical on the tree. Have taken plenty of very effective head shots before, this kind of thing just happens with either shot placement. Head shots just leave a little bit less room for error, so I take them when I feel good about shot placement, but even then....

The second one this morning took one to the face if you will. I'm sure the pellet traveled into the brain stem and or the neck. It flopped around quite a bit, but did expire after all the dancing around, no need for a follow up.

The third one I took got a perfect shoulder POI. It took off and ran for like 5 yards and then just stoped in it's tracks and was done right there.

In the end, I still think that either shot placement is appropriate and the only thing that changes for me is how I feel about it at the moment, what my instincts say, and how the quarry presents itself.

I have done the same thing that's why I started this thread I'm not against headshots as I've said before but a headshot might not be the best shot to take all the time and that taking a vitals shot can in fact kill an animal contrary to some people's beliefs. thanks for posting

 

[Hard2hurt223]

@intenseaty22
Those are nice rifles. How far out have you tested or pested using Hades pellets effectively? Which caliber and gun did you use on your farthest shots shooting Hades pellets?

I have used a .25cal Maverick with hades and have killed grackles and starlings out to 60yds with great success that was at 45fpe and made them pop very loudly at that range even louder than the gun

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

Most of the replies I feel are typically talking about squirrel kills. They seems to dance a bit 90% of the time even with a brain shot. Sever the spine is the only time I typically get a DRT. Theyll crawl under rocks with half their head missing from a polymag, completely dead but still going til that heart stops.

Rabbits tend to drop with a hard hit no matter vital or head. Lower power shots to the head usually results in a flip or 5.

Larger birds tend to flip over on their back and flap til it's over. Squirrels just get... squirrely.

 

[aklonewolf]

I've shot squirrels in the face on upward tree shots and blown their noses or jaws off and had them run off. That's a crappy feeling for me and a horrible way to die for them. I do vitals now if I take those shots, head shots if I have a flatter angle to shoot at like in my yard where I have a shooting station for them. They sure are tough sometimes and run off. However they're dumb enough to come back if they survive and I just shoot them again.

That’s another reason why I don’t like head shots.

 

[N2 Shooter]

For me shooting ground hogs possums skunks even with my 50 Texan 460 grain slugs at 860 fps. It doesn't kill all the time unless you get a head or neck spine shot. Subsonic doesn't kill anything like powder burners at 2500fps up. A possums skunk and ground hogs have all ate big huge .510 slugs and crawled away. I have some pretty good videos taken with my sightmark wraith to verify. My Big texan is cool and quiet. But as far as killing power if its not a head neck break the spine shot recovery of game is extremely difficult. Also minimal meat damage .510 hole in out no bleeding. My results of using my 510 Texan the last three years..

I have a theory after running into a similar experience.

Whenever you take such a powerful airgun that it blows right through the game, the energy from the round is not deposited into the game. If the ammo was designed for quick expansion, while still having enough penetration to get to the vitals, but not enough energy for a full passthrough, the energy transfer will disable the nervous and respiratory systems, while the system shuts down from other organ damage and blood loss.

Case in point, here is a video of a groundhog clean heart/lung shot (full passthrough) with an NSA 110gr slug at 880, and it just took off and started running like I cussed it out or something!

I believe this is because the NSA slugs don't expand well at all. How do I know? I did Ballistics Gel testing and saw that they would fly through the entire 16" gel block and make a wound channel just as big as the slug was.

Now a similar, but a fair amount less powerful shot with a Predator Polymag .357, has routinely dropped them on the spot:

 

[jt-outta-cali]

I have a theory after running into a similar experience.

Whenever you take such a powerful airgun that it blows right through the game, the energy from the round is not deposited into the game. If the ammo was designed for quick expansion, while still having enough penetration to get to the vitals, but not enough energy for a full passthrough, the energy transfer will disable the nervous and respiratory systems, while the system shuts down from other organ damage and blood loss.

Case in point, here is a video of a groundhog clean heat/lung shot (full passthrough) with an NSA 110gr slug at 880, and it just took off and started running like I cussed it out or something!

I believe this is because the NSA slugs don't expand well at all. How do I know? I did Ballistics Gel testing and saw that they would fly through the entire 16" gel block and make a wound channel just as big as the slug was.

Now a similar, but a fair amount less powerful shot with a Predator Polymag .357, has routinely dropped them on the spot:

So are you saying the best ammo is the kind that penetrates and hits hard but not hard enough to pass through vs something with crazy energy that just cuts through?

 

[N2 Shooter]

So are you saying the best ammo is the kind that penetrates and hits hard but not hard enough to pass through vs something with crazy energy that just cuts through?

That is my theory. But I must be clear, that airguns do not generate hydrostatic shock like high velocity firearms do. Hydrostatic shock causes the rapid expansion of tissue so fast that it exceeds it's elastic limits, and it is ripped and shredded in the process. As in the case of airgun ballistics, the physics is pretty clear that energy doesn't disappear, it gets transferred. So If a round had 175 fpe at the muzzle, and 150 fpe at the target, and it took 50 fpe for the ammo to penetrate the target, but the round expanded fast enough that it did not do a full passthough, the round transferred 100 fpe to the target.

Another way to think about it, is a round hitting the target at 900fps is the same as that round hitting the target at 613mph!

Take a look at my Ballistic Gel testing video where I go into more detail on my airgun knockdown power theory. I know it is by no means a scientifically sound test, but some correlations can be made as to why some round perform differently than others. Just a note about how tough Clear Ballistics Gel is. Neither my wife nor myself could stick our fingers in a slug entry and push our fingers in until the entire finger was in the block. When you see that massive 3" bubble in the video still frame, know it takes a significant amount of energy for that to happen. And even if I didn't put the round through your liver, if your liver was an inch away, it's like getting punched in the liver at 613mph!!! That is gonna incapacitate a whole lot of prey!

 

[crazyhorse]

I shoot squirrels in the shoulder so that the pellet penetrates the heart and lungs. This interrupts the blood flow to the brain. The squirrels are ground squirrels in SO Cal and not for consumption like tree squirrels in Northern Cal. The state of CALI considers the ground squirrels vermin and there is no limit. So we shoot 100,s of them on local horse ranches. In addition because of the grass these squirrels stand up often and you have a taller target rather than just a head shot and this makes longer shots easier.

https://u.cubeupload.com/crazyhorse4/Snowmisc003.jpg

 

[JimD]

I think a couple factors are involved when you hit a game animal with enough - or plenty enough - of a gun/projectile and it runs. First, I think the odds of DRT on shots other than brain/spine are not close to 100%. Maybe closer to 50%. We need the brain to shut down and it does that when it is damaged, or doesn't have oxygen. Removing the oxygen takes a little time. So they can run even though there is no doubt they will die. Second, I also think the "will to live" or something like that varies. I've only shot one rabbit with my air rifles and it was with the Prod. I hit it in the front of the chest and found the pellet at a rear leg. Went straight through the vitals and the guts. It ran about 50 ft before collapsing. That rabbit and I stared at each other before I shot it. It was keyed up. I've hit squirrels the same way with my P35-25 and they ran too but not nearly that far. I hit a squirrel Sunday with my P35-177 and wrote about it. The shot went through the lower neck, the throat, and obviously damaged major blood vessels. It bled heavily. It went from there to break the off side front shoulder and through the lower leg too. It dropped pretty quickly but got back up and climbed 10 feet up another tree. When it fell the second time it struggled enough my dog dropped it before she got a better bite on it and finished it off. I think the rabbit and this squirrel were more determined than most - or more excited or something.

 

[crazyhorse]

Head shots are messy....lots of blood and a more difficult shot. Certainly you can experience a "runner" with either method (head or shoulder) but I find the shoulder shot drops them within a 3 ft circle about 90 % of the time.

https://u.cubeupload.com/crazyhorse4/IMG2474.jpg

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I have a theory after running into a similar experience.

Whenever you take such a powerful airgun that it blows right through the game, the energy from the round is not deposited into the game. If the ammo was designed for quick expansion, while still having enough penetration to get to the vitals, but not enough energy for a full passthrough, the energy transfer will disable the nervous and respiratory systems, while the system shuts down from other organ damage and blood loss.

Case in point, here is a video of a groundhog clean heart/lung shot (full passthrough) with an NSA 110gr slug at 880, and it just took off and started running like I cussed it out or something!

I believe this is because the NSA slugs don't expand well at all. How do I know? I did Ballistics Gel testing and saw that they would fly through the entire 16" gel block and make a wound channel just as big as the slug was.

Now a similar, but a fair amount less powerful shot with a Predator Polymag .357, has routinely dropped them on the spot:

I agree the energy needs to transfer to shock the prey.

I have always had great success with polymags anchoring game.

As for NSA slugs, I hit a squirrel the other day thru the right shoulder, all the vitals, thru left shoulder, and it stopped just under the skin. 28 fpe give or take on impact. Here is the recoverd slug. 17.5 grain. It didnt expand as well as i thought it would, but definitely expanded. The squirrel rolled over and died.

Then I got a squirrel with a 25 hades doing around 45 fpe on impact and it passed thru hitting the back stop. She dropped and coughed up a huge blood trail and took off but rain out of blood fast. Point being, the energy didn't "shock" her, it zipped thru and splattered the heart and lungs but she had the faculties to flee.

 

[N2 Shooter]

I agree the energy needs to transfer to shock the prey.

I have always had great success with polymags anchoring game.

As for NSA slugs, I hit a squirrel the other day thru the right shoulder, all the vitals, thru left shoulder, and it stopped just under the skin. 28 fpe give or take on impact. Here is the recoverd slug. 17.5 grain. It didnt expand as well as i thought it would, but definitely expanded. The squirrel rolled over and died.View attachment 311703

Then I got a squirrel with a 25 hades doing around 45 fpe on impact and it passed thru hitting the back stop. She dropped and coughed up a huge blood trail and took off but rain out of blood fast. Point being, the energy didn't "shock" her, it zipped thru and splattered the heart and lungs but she had the faculties to flee.

You make a great point here.

In my case shooting the NSA slugs in .357cal the slug sidewalls are very thick compared to the NSA slugs in .25cal. That may be great for penetration on big game like a hog, but for smaller game, we prefer expansion earlier. This is the very reason why ammo testing for the type of game you intend to shoot, at the energy level you are shooting it at is so important! I had excellent luck literally decapitating Starlings using NSA .25cal slugs out of a 50fpe airgun, but that performance didn't transfer over to the .357cal with the energy levels that my Bulldog can generate. But when I do some ballistics gel test with the FX Hybrid Slugs shooting out of the Bulldog, I expect a ridiculous amount of expansion!