Other Why so expensive?

Wow, did this thread take a turn or what?! :LOL:

Anyway, to get us back on topic, I’ll agree that producing a quality airgun made to last for decades takes a lot more work than a similar powder burner. That’s not at all to say that accurate, reliable powder burners don’t require precision and craftsmanship to make, but from a mechanical standpoint a bolt action rifle is quite simple. For air rifles, there are far more complex processes and assemblies required to make them work, and all of that takes time, energy, and resources, all of which equate to more money.

Now, I’m not saying that the cost to performance ratio isn’t upside down, because it generally is. I just sold a nice .223 to help fund my first “big quality” air rifle. That .223 was capable of making hits on target out to around 1,000 yards before passing through the transonic barrier, and would still be carrying more energy than the air rifle that will replace it by several times over. But as others have noted, using that rifle requires a very specific environment that takes me a few hours to get to. The air rifle I plan to replace it with? I can tune it for my backyard, or I can tune it to reach out to 100y+, and in either case it would still be “backyard friendly” from a volume standpoint. And it’s legal to use in vastly more places. That’s versatility that a powder burner will never have, which is the sole reason I want one. In addition, the cost of shooting it is about half of what it costs to shoot a quality .22LR cartridge. That’s worth paying for up-front because it comes out ahead in the long run.

To be fair though, I’m maxed around $1,500 new or so. I can’t justify $3,000 for anything right now lol.
 
You get what you pay for to an extent. The lower end (carried at every walmart) powderburners and the chinese imported price war pcps will both do their intended job for awhile if you are willing to accept some concessions to price.

Once you get to the $1k price point, you get into nicer guns in both versions that hold their value and are nicer to operate. These tend to be the "lifetime and pass it down" options. Never mind that the kids aren't interested in them anyway.

Going to the the 2k and up is very specialized competition guns or spending money just to show off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Basher
Bows are less “powerful” than many of the big air rifles folks are shooting at deer.

Don’t believe me? Do the math.

Somehow they kill stuff incredibly effectively.

Shock does not kill animals…. Holes in vital organs kill animals.

A .50 cal hole through both lungs is certain, and quick, death.

I've taken elk, deer, turkey, javelina and grouse with a bow. I've been doing it for 20 years.

Let me unravel the mystery for you.

An arrow effects a kill with a wound channel that is exponentially larger than an airgun slug of any caliber. Even with a straight pass through it will inflict several square feet of bleeding tissue. The wound will not close. An arrow has enough kinetic energy to break through bone and still penetrate. An arrow that does not pass through is MUCH more lethal. When an animal runs, falls, struggles it wags around inside their chest and causes more damage. It is incredibly effective on the largest game.

An airgun slug has a comparatively low amount of kinetic energy. When it looses speed it has very little and hide slows it down a lot. It cannot break bone and penetrate. It leaves a tiny wound channel with no hydroshock effect. The wound channel is subject to closure. It produces no damage after the hit. Zero.

That's why an arrow kills large animals very effectively and an air rifle does not.

A double lung shot with no shock effect will often close and not even leave a blood trail to track by. Ask any hunter who shoots a primitive weapon with a ball projectile. This isn't complicated nor a secret. It's common knowledge with any experienced hunter. Most animals go long distances and live hours after they are shot. An instant kill doesn't always happen even with a direct heart shot. Instant kills just don't happen very often no matter what gun you are shooting. They will happen rarely when hunting larger game with an air rifle.

Shock DOES kill animals. Anyone remotely familiar with hunting knows that. To think otherwise is grossly misinformed. You can poke all the holes that you want. Unless shock damages tissue and forms a wide wound channel you have an animal you are chasing. Or leaving to die slowly from blood loss or infection.

This is just basic hunting 101. Things a teenager should know before picking up a rifle to kill an animal. Knowledge that is sorely absent with some guys in the airgun community.

Now let's do the math.

A medium weight carbon arrow with a 125 gr. broadhead shot from a 70 lb. bow will have about 50lbs. of kinetic energy at 40 yards. It cuts a wound channel about 3.5 inches wide. That's roughly 70 square inches of bleeding tissue for every foot of penetration. It continues to cut and produce new bleeding tissue as long as the animal is still moving.

A 40 grain airgun slug at 900 fps has about 70 lbs of kinetic energy. It cuts a linear channel that is basically half of the penetration depth. A 12" pass through shot would have less than 6 square inches of bleeding surface area. It is too light to penetrate bone. The small wound is subject to closure. It damages nothing after the projectile stops moving.

That right there is the real situation like it or not.

Let's not go into shock and how bullets kill. Airgun slugs aren't bullets. They just don't have the speed to make a projectile perform like a bullet. When a bullet slows to the point it won't produce shock it becomes ineffective. Like an airgun slug.

Air rifles poke a nice hole very accurately. But they are nowhere near as suited for killing an animal as a rifle or a bow. They just don't produce a wound channel large enough to effect a reliable kill nor can they be used to knock an animal off its feet. Yes, if you can place a perfect shot in the brain they work fine. Outside of this specific situation they don't work very well at all for an animal much larger than a rabbit.

Most guys don't know how to kill with a 7mm magnum much less an air rifle. Most guys cant handle a bad shot and have no idea how to bring down a wounded animal on the run. This tells me that most guys hunting big game with a PCP are wounding lots of animals without recovering them. They do every day with powderburners. The idea that an airgun would not produce even more wounded animals in real hunting situations is just not realistic.
 
Last edited:
Can we please have y’all start your own thread on the merits and detractions of various wounding mechanics in your own, dedicated thread? This train derailed many posts ago, but a few of you are still shoveling coal into the burner just as fast and as furiously as you can. I’m not saying the discussion isn’t interesting, I’m just saying this is the wrong place for it. We have a dedicated hunting section on AGN for a reason… :)

IMG_0363.jpeg
 
I don't have a problem with people spending $3000 for an air rifle if they can afford it. I can but I won't. I just do not see the value. If you do, that is fine. I like shooting my P35s and Prod and Avenger. I also like shooting my Caiman X which cost about 3 times as much but still not what a M4 costs. My Caiman is not more accurate than the best of my P35s. It is better machined and cocking feels better from some viewpoints. The Caiman magazines are better but I like Carm magazines the best of the ones I've tried. I think the spring in the Caiman magazines is overly stiff and I like having the last spot of the magazine blocked so I can not fire on an empty chamber. I had more things to fix on my Caiman than I've had on less expensive rifles. But it is fixed now and a pleasure to use. But not really more so than my less expensive airguns. My car if a BMW convertible, my truck is a Ram 1500 tradesman classic. I like having some "nicer" things I just do not see that the gap between more expensive and less expensive airguns is large enough in features/quality for the price difference.

I also have comments relative to airgun hunting but I agree they belong in hunting so I'll put them there.
 
Much of the price comes down to airguns being a niche market. If there was serious mass production, prices would be considerably lower. As is, you're paying a more significant percentage of the engineering and machining costs with most airguns.

When local guys start building them like they do AR15's the prices will plummet. Then they will sell like Glocks. Everyone will have one. Or three.

The engineering is not expensive when you use an existing design that lends itself to duplication.

I think that's not too far over the horizon.

Plated airgun slugs would be a blue chip investment. You guys are approaching speeds you just can't go past with a lead slug crudely formed. It would be cheap and easy to start doing it now. That's the future of airgun projectiles. Get in on that and you could all buy a new Brocock.
 
Last edited:
I have a neurological disorder
Truest thing you’ve said on this forum!

Bob… if .50 caliber holes through both lungs don’t kill stuff…. how in the world did muskets kill the crap out of all game on the planet, and free this country from the Red Coats?

You’re 3 laps down, and driving like you’re leading the race.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Caliber 22
I was taking one last look at my CZ 457 Pro Varmint which I am trading for an FX Streamline.
Did you see this and many other similar threads:

 
Airgun pcp are expensive cause company know folks will still buy them cause of big brand names. For $3k I can buy a good firearm for self defense or hunting without the need for tanks and compressors.
Firearms have their imminent role in my stable… My airguns too, with my admittedly pricey PCPs, I send at least 1K pellets down range a month… I wouldn’t be able to afford doing that with my powder burners. And, yes I do reload for my centerfires…. This thread is not about “firearms vs. PCPs”.
 
Last edited:
I have a ~$500 gun and I have a ~$1200 gun. I do not have a +$2000 gun (yet). I can say there is a fair amount of perceivable quality difference (at least in my two examples) between the $500 gun and the $1200 gun. Materials, fit and finish, etc. Definitely a step up in some regards. Both are accurate and pleasing to shoot, but you know which one was more expensive when you get behind the trigger. Worth the $6-700 to me, anyway.
Now, take that $1200 gun and compare it to a $2200 gun. To my eye, now you're talking a lot more money for generally only moderate improvement in shot cycle over the previous evolution (the $500 vs $1200 gun), but you're paying nearly twice as much for half the refinement. And so on and so forth. How far you go depends on how much refinement you require or can afford.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: graycrait
I’d pay good money for a PCP that was as durable as a good powder burner! I’ve got powder burners that live rough lives in pack scabbards, backpacks, truck seats, and get bounced to Timbuktu… but manage to stay sighted in year after year.

PCPs seem much more sensitive to a little tough love. I had an FX Wildcat that would lose zero if I looked at it funny.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Caliber 22
I think with the extreme cost of the higher end PCP's it opens up room for the less expensive ones.

Everyone wants the latest tech with all the gadgets but very few can afford it. Also the designs of the high end guns are largely "tack tickle" and not classic. IMHO it leaves the market open for the less expensive classic style rifles

I bet the profit potential for a manufacturer is greater at the lower end of the scale. While the high end guns get the attention and cause a stir the more sensible rifles probably sell better and require less innovation and engineering.

They spend big bucks marketing guns that look like a storm trooper lost it. That marketing gets tons of attention but cost tons of money. Most guys like me will look at all that candy but buy a more utilitarian gun. So even if the high end rifles don't turn a huge profit they serve to drive the companies marketing campaign and sell the other guns.

A Ford commercial features a shiny red 600hp. Mustang and a giant truck the size of a locomotive. But their main business is work trucks and vans. I think the "face" of airgun sales work much the same.

I like to look at the Brocock rifles but if I were to buy a PCP it would be a huntsman. And the pattern remains the same all the way down the brands and price ranges. While the "tack tickle" style guns bait the hook at the top of the ticket the classic style rifles are often more appealing and priced less. I bet they sell more of them and reap a better profit too.
 
Last edited:
Airguns are probably overpriced for what they are, but there is a lot of technology and liability that goes into their manufacture. It is true that, once you get past $1K, you're entering a whole new level of engineering, quality and sophistication. While cheaper guns can be very good, they simply don't compare to Daystate, Brocock, FX etc. A lot of the price is the volume of guns that are sold in a particular model. We are also a victim of the currency exhange rate among countries, that causes prices to be excessive also. For me, I try my best to find used airguns to offset the high prices, but in the end, they are worth it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jmohme
There’s also WAY more technology in a high-end PCP than there is in a powder burning bench rifle. The “Technology” in powder burners is in the machining (barrel manufacturing, CNC’d actions, .0001” accurate lathes, and knowledgeable skilled ‘smiths) …. but basic gun design hasn’t changed in 140 years.

Air rifles, on the other hand, are advancing what seems like weekly. There are probably 25 times more moving parts on a PCP than there are on most bolt guns.
And with that technology, comes the cost of R&D and the tooling to produce the final product. These costs have to be recovered, so they are factored into the price of the relatively small number of PCP air guns that will be sold before the next technological advance.

So now in contrast, we take a classic, the Benjamin Marauder that has been sold and has been pretty much unchanged for many years. The R&D on that gun was recovered years ago and while I do not have the numeber that has been sold, I know that number dwarfs the number of the high end PCPs.

Or we can take a look Crosman 760 pump air rifle. You can buy it today for I think around $60. Over 15 million of those were sold since they came out in 1964. The only changes I know of on those is use of some cheaper materials and more efficient (cheaper) manufacturing processes.

So, If you want to just shoot in your back yard, or do a little pesting and save money doing so, buy a Marauder or Avenger, or any of the other lower priced guns. They are still good guns, but I would not compare them to the upper. tier of competition capable guns available today. Those are always going to demand a higher price and for good reasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Basher