Western Airguns Working to Figure Out the Western Rattler .357
- Thread starter Ezana4CE
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@Airgun-hobbyist It did fine with a few exceptions. It skipped a few shots shooting slugs. I just pressed the trigger again and it cycled and shot on the next shot after advancing the first misfire manually. What I noticed today was that the bases on a few slugs were deformed. So what I took note of is during seating and cycling the mag I noticed some would work themselves loose. It seems like some chambers are slightly wider than the rest. I have a Huben with a mag like that as well. In my observations projectiles in those chambers work their way back out of the groves in the mag when shooting or angling the rifle upwards. Then the base of the projectile(s) become deformed or damaged when cycling. I started to take a photo of the base of a slug but I can do it another time. It won’t be the last time it happens. The pellets cycled flawlessly. I probably shot 30-45 of them. I can’t recall.
Edited typos and for clarity.
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@Airgun-hobbyist I’ve shot this chrono a few times before, just not with a heavy pellets. Each time it was me being stupid not paying attention to where the muzzle lined up while trying to move back and shoot off of a rest instead of a table. I have to figure out how to operate my other chrony now. I’m glad I recorded velocity and some shot string data because I was unable to get the chrony synced to my phone today. I’ll probably get another one. Hopeful I learn my other chrony so I can wait to catch a sale. Or I may go with something else. Who knows?
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Good info about those short slugs. Thanks. When I shot light, short slugs my Rattler would not seat them in the magazine either. Mainly because I didn't use something to push them in farther than my fingertip though. But it hadn't become an issue because I was just testing them on a bench for accuracy, and only shoot long slugs now that barely fit the length of the magazine. They seat smoothly and with some resistance.
I was watching the Mr. Hollowpoint video on the 357 Rattler slug specs based on weight and it showed that the 119 grain slugs made the most PFE relative to speed. So using the Chairgun App I plugged that relative data and added a few grains (125) and added length of a rbt (.650" long slug) which gave a near perfect stability factor number.
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Last night was my first night out with the Rattler 357 and my Pulsar Thermion to see what I could see concerning hog activity and to get better acquainted with this combination. After sunset, fog rose from the earth. This is a heavy setup and I experienced some lower back pain from toting this around for some hours.
Some things I learned was: to be as familiar with the gun as possible so that you know what is where in the dark. Know how to manipulate your safeties one-handed in the dark. Fill reservoir before leaving. Find a comfortable method of transporting the rifle. This was important to me because I did a good amount of walking slowly and I was hurting afterwards. Find a comfortable distance that allows you to easily access the optic and rotate the rifle on tripod’s ballhead. This particular K&L butstock can easily get caught in the fabric of a coat or shirt. It required ample space to rotate the rifle and not get hung up in my shirt. In my opinion it is not made for night hunting. I think it’s more of a bench rest butstock. It also helps to be very familiar with the button layout of your NV or thermal optic so that it can be easily operated in the dark.
Some things I learned was: to be as familiar with the gun as possible so that you know what is where in the dark. Know how to manipulate your safeties one-handed in the dark. Fill reservoir before leaving. Find a comfortable method of transporting the rifle. This was important to me because I did a good amount of walking slowly and I was hurting afterwards. Find a comfortable distance that allows you to easily access the optic and rotate the rifle on tripod’s ballhead. This particular K&L butstock can easily get caught in the fabric of a coat or shirt. It required ample space to rotate the rifle and not get hung up in my shirt. In my opinion it is not made for night hunting. I think it’s more of a bench rest butstock. It also helps to be very familiar with the button layout of your NV or thermal optic so that it can be easily operated in the dark.
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I was out shooting 81 grain pellets again using my Athlon Helos BTR Gen 2-12x FFP. My groups suck. 15 shots producing 2” groups. I need practice.
I did manage to photograph some pellets that I pushed forward farther than I’d have liked to.
I used a retractable ink pen to seat them, tip in. Only one was pushed in too far (not these two). What I learned to do once one is pushed forward too far is to place the pen between the magazine guard (the flat piece in front of the mag) and the magazine, resting the edge of the tip protector (the tapered lower portion of the ink pen’s body) between the two surfaces, then pushing the button ejecting the ball point from within the barrel and pushing the domed pellet back into the mag. It sounds long, but it’s easy.
On Monday I was discussing how seated projectiles can be jolted loose (unseated) during the shot cycle. Today I stopped shooting mid cycle and rotated the cylinder. This is what I saw. Note the loose pellet. A couple fell out and had to be replaced.
Finally, I also discussed how loose projectiles can become marred or deformed at their bases within the mag. Here’s a photo of a pellet whose base was obviously getting deformed as the mag rotated. This is a mild deformation.
I did manage to photograph some pellets that I pushed forward farther than I’d have liked to.
I used a retractable ink pen to seat them, tip in. Only one was pushed in too far (not these two). What I learned to do once one is pushed forward too far is to place the pen between the magazine guard (the flat piece in front of the mag) and the magazine, resting the edge of the tip protector (the tapered lower portion of the ink pen’s body) between the two surfaces, then pushing the button ejecting the ball point from within the barrel and pushing the domed pellet back into the mag. It sounds long, but it’s easy.
On Monday I was discussing how seated projectiles can be jolted loose (unseated) during the shot cycle. Today I stopped shooting mid cycle and rotated the cylinder. This is what I saw. Note the loose pellet. A couple fell out and had to be replaced.
Finally, I also discussed how loose projectiles can become marred or deformed at their bases within the mag. Here’s a photo of a pellet whose base was obviously getting deformed as the mag rotated. This is a mild deformation.
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Back at it working with these 81 grain pellets in some pretty nice wind gusts.
15 shots shooting standing behind my tripod. These were pretty rapid, but consistent shots.
I think I’ll move closer before moving further out. The farthest I will shoot today is 75 yards.
Edited typos and for clarity.
15 shots shooting standing behind my tripod. These were pretty rapid, but consistent shots.
I think I’ll move closer before moving further out. The farthest I will shoot today is 75 yards.
Edited typos and for clarity.
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I spent a few hours shooting in the wind today, mostly shooting pellets. I didn’t shoot beyond 60 yards and I probably shot around 180-200 pellets. I cannot say that I got good results with them farther out. Now I need to figure out if it’s my tune, shooting technique, dirty barrel, etc. It was windy with changing wind gusts close to 20 mph (I think 18 mph was the fastest). I made a few good shots reading the wind. I do think I need to remove this scope. As much as I’ve tried, I just can’t say that I like this Athlon Helos BTR Gen 2. Please don’t message me asking if I want to sell it. If I do you’ll probably see an ad. I have an idea of what I want to replace it with. I did notice that when I shot slugs for my last 3-4 groups, they looked better. I really couldn’t see my targets clearly after shooting the first group. I was out at 60 65 yards towards sunset and it’s tough for me to see fine details in low light at a distance with this scope.
These groups were about as good as it got for me shooting out at 60-65 yards. The top target was from 60 yards. The bottom target was from 65 yards. On the bottom target I could hardly make out a faint white spot (the bullseye) on the target at 8x mag using my illuminated reticle. The illuminated reticle looks thick at a distance and can get in the way of a small target area. These targets are shot shooting NSA 110 grain slugs.
NSA .357, 110 grain hollow-point dish-base slugs tend to work their way loose in some of the magazine chambers after shooting a few shots. I experienced about 3-4 misfires where the gun dry fired and I had to stop shooting, put it on safe, lift the mag release lever, and manually advanced the mag to the next chamber. Here’s a photo of the base of a slug when I stopped to manually advance the mag following a misfire. Can you see how the other slugs are still seated (farther forward) in their chambers?
Another issue that I’ve been paying attention to the last three shooting sessions is that I am catching a blast of air to my shooting eye shooting this gun. Zoom in on my photos of the rifle in this thread to see where my scope placement is to provide feedback to whether or not you all think my scope is mounted in a bad location on the picatinny rail. As it currently sits, I am comfortable with the placement of my face and the eye box. Even when wearing safety glasses, the air blast blows beneath the glasses not over the lens. Suggestions are welcomed to correct this. I have somewhat of an idea of what I can try but it’s counterintuitive to the remedy of another issue I’ve experienced.
I did recover a spent pellet next to the back stop. Here’s how it looks.
Below are some pellet groups. Starting in the top left 40 yards, top right 45 yards, bottom left 45 yards, bottom right 50 yards.
What I was noticing was that I’d have 2-3 shots landing in the same area then a shot would rise or drop. I don’t know if it was the wind or what. The wind was changing directions on me. A lot of the lateral shifting was my doing. Some of this vertical stuff I’m not sure what was going on with these pellets.
From 10 - 25 yards the groups looked a lot better.
Edited typos and edited for clarity.
These groups were about as good as it got for me shooting out at 60-65 yards. The top target was from 60 yards. The bottom target was from 65 yards. On the bottom target I could hardly make out a faint white spot (the bullseye) on the target at 8x mag using my illuminated reticle. The illuminated reticle looks thick at a distance and can get in the way of a small target area. These targets are shot shooting NSA 110 grain slugs.
NSA .357, 110 grain hollow-point dish-base slugs tend to work their way loose in some of the magazine chambers after shooting a few shots. I experienced about 3-4 misfires where the gun dry fired and I had to stop shooting, put it on safe, lift the mag release lever, and manually advanced the mag to the next chamber. Here’s a photo of the base of a slug when I stopped to manually advance the mag following a misfire. Can you see how the other slugs are still seated (farther forward) in their chambers?
Another issue that I’ve been paying attention to the last three shooting sessions is that I am catching a blast of air to my shooting eye shooting this gun. Zoom in on my photos of the rifle in this thread to see where my scope placement is to provide feedback to whether or not you all think my scope is mounted in a bad location on the picatinny rail. As it currently sits, I am comfortable with the placement of my face and the eye box. Even when wearing safety glasses, the air blast blows beneath the glasses not over the lens. Suggestions are welcomed to correct this. I have somewhat of an idea of what I can try but it’s counterintuitive to the remedy of another issue I’ve experienced.
I did recover a spent pellet next to the back stop. Here’s how it looks.
Below are some pellet groups. Starting in the top left 40 yards, top right 45 yards, bottom left 45 yards, bottom right 50 yards.
What I was noticing was that I’d have 2-3 shots landing in the same area then a shot would rise or drop. I don’t know if it was the wind or what. The wind was changing directions on me. A lot of the lateral shifting was my doing. Some of this vertical stuff I’m not sure what was going on with these pellets.
From 10 - 25 yards the groups looked a lot better.
Edited typos and edited for clarity.
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Those long range groups are getting smaller than you previously posted. Fixing the magazine cycling issue (and air blast) will tighten up the groups even more in multiple ways... you won't unconsciously flinch at the prospect of air and shrapnel to the face, the extreme spread will tighten up from more consistent air use, and undamaged lead down the pipe is more accurate.
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I was curious about the puff of air your feeling on your face and I found this on page 10 of the manual:
*If you feel a burst of air blowing against your face when the Rattler fires, it is probably because the barrel has been backed-off slightly too far. Loosen the barrel clamping screws, rotate the barrel A VERY SMALL AMOUNT clockwise, re-tighten the screws and test again
*If you feel a burst of air blowing against your face when the Rattler fires, it is probably because the barrel has been backed-off slightly too far. Loosen the barrel clamping screws, rotate the barrel A VERY SMALL AMOUNT clockwise, re-tighten the screws and test again
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I have a question about the bores thru the magazine. Are the bores straight thru (no taper) or is there a slight taper to them...like wider at the rear where the base of the slug sits, and a little narrower at the front where the nose of the slug sits?
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Ok so I have a string of bore scope photos starting from the rear of the magazine to the junction between the front of the mag and the breech end of the barrel, throughout the barrel, and up to the crown.
Rear of the magazine.
Front of the mag where it meets the barrel
Leade of the barrel
Leading within the barrel
It looks like some sort of lube or gunk is in here. Not sure what that gray stuff is.
Leading at the crown
Another photo of the crown
Edited misplaced photo (out of order)
Rear of the magazine.
Front of the mag where it meets the barrel
Leade of the barrel
Leading within the barrel
It looks like some sort of lube or gunk is in here. Not sure what that gray stuff is.
Leading at the crown
Another photo of the crown
Edited misplaced photo (out of order)
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A kind member reached out to me earlier and was good enough to take time to walk me through some of the maintenance steps to remove the barrel in order to make adjustments to address this blast of air to my face. I also took the time to clean the barrel at his suggestion. I didn’t aggressively clean it, but I did use a carbon-fiber rod, lead/copper remover solvent, a brass brush, a plastic jag, Ballistol, and some cotton patches. Because I wasn’t aggressive in my brunch cleaning I didn’t get all of the lead out, but the improvement is noticeable. I only made two passes with solvent on the brush. Then dry patches. Next I ran a wet patches with Ballistol and dry patches until they came out almost white.
Here are some after cleaning boresope photos.
I didn’t clean the grooves towards the crown well at all because it was resting on the paper over the tabletop impeding the brush from exiting. I try to be mindful not to mar the crown while cleaning.
To remove the barrel first I removed the moderator cover which exposed the moderator core. I held the core with a gloved hand and unscrewed the core and shroud together. They come off as one piece. When I set them down I noticed there is a loose baffle to the rear of the core. The moderator internals is a single piece with no loose parts. It seems as if the weld is broken on the last baffle above the arrow.
Next I removed the over-the-barrel pic rail piece.
I noticed an o-ring that I assume is there to cushion the end of the carbon fiber shroud and the chasis.
Then I loosened the two allen screws that secure the barrel, unscrewed, and removed the barrel.
Then I rotated and removed the front cage. Next I removed the two small screws that secure the cheek rest to the receiver. Finally I removed the rear cage.
After removing the barrel I cleaned the threads with cotton swabs. I applied a little graphite powder to the barrel threads just before I replaced the barrel.
This was taken as I cleaned the barrel.
Edited typos and for clarity.
Here are some after cleaning boresope photos.
I didn’t clean the grooves towards the crown well at all because it was resting on the paper over the tabletop impeding the brush from exiting. I try to be mindful not to mar the crown while cleaning.
To remove the barrel first I removed the moderator cover which exposed the moderator core. I held the core with a gloved hand and unscrewed the core and shroud together. They come off as one piece. When I set them down I noticed there is a loose baffle to the rear of the core. The moderator internals is a single piece with no loose parts. It seems as if the weld is broken on the last baffle above the arrow.
Next I removed the over-the-barrel pic rail piece.
I noticed an o-ring that I assume is there to cushion the end of the carbon fiber shroud and the chasis.
Then I loosened the two allen screws that secure the barrel, unscrewed, and removed the barrel.
Then I rotated and removed the front cage. Next I removed the two small screws that secure the cheek rest to the receiver. Finally I removed the rear cage.
After removing the barrel I cleaned the threads with cotton swabs. I applied a little graphite powder to the barrel threads just before I replaced the barrel.
This was taken as I cleaned the barrel.
Edited typos and for clarity.
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I went out after installing the barrel again racing sunset and shot a few groups. Since I rezeored my scope at 35 yards yesterday I took the time to grab my holds for 10-20 yards.
Top left is 8 shots from 35 yards, top right and center left were 40 yards, center right is from 20 yards, bottom left is 15 yards, bottom right is 10 yards. Shooting JSB Match Diabolo 81 grain pellets.
The reticle on this scope sucks for holdovers with my style of shooting. I’m waiting on a sale to replace this crappy reticle in this scope that everyone seems to love.
Oh yea. In some of my post-cleaning bore scope photos I see some scratches in the barrel. What do y’all think caused that?
Top left is 8 shots from 35 yards, top right and center left were 40 yards, center right is from 20 yards, bottom left is 15 yards, bottom right is 10 yards. Shooting JSB Match Diabolo 81 grain pellets.
The reticle on this scope sucks for holdovers with my style of shooting. I’m waiting on a sale to replace this crappy reticle in this scope that everyone seems to love.
Oh yea. In some of my post-cleaning bore scope photos I see some scratches in the barrel. What do y’all think caused that?
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So I took the Rattler out this evening with my Pulsar Thermal scope and loaded some pellets. The target was armadillos. The other night I went out with my Huben K1 and tried shooting one through some brush, I think I failed to connect in 5 shots. Then I heard something behind me and it’s another armadillo walking in a clearing. I lined up my shot and was out of pellets.
Tonight I made sure I had ample air and a mag full of pellets. It didn’t take long to locate this armadillo. It was in the same brush I usually hear it in. On occasion it may scratch and dig up an area of my yard. So I got some hand held scanner footage, but couldn’t remember how to record on the scope. I ranged it at 15 yards and guessed my hold. I forgot that I haven’t gotten my DOPE for close up shots with this scope. I took the shot offhand and hit low into the dirt. That dillo hauled ass!! I mean he seriously ran off. I changed my hold and squeezed the trigger again annnnnnd nothing.. The mag didn’t advance. So I lifted the lever and manually advanced it but by then the critter was out of sight. I’d much rather have this issue here working dillos than to be on some hogs and have this happen. I have to get this figured out. I know I didn’t seat all of the pellets deeply within their chambers. That misfire really sucked because if I could’ve gotten off another shot or two I may have hit the dillo before it made its way into a hole. I may go out there in a bit and see if it feels comfortable enough to come back out.
Tonight I made sure I had ample air and a mag full of pellets. It didn’t take long to locate this armadillo. It was in the same brush I usually hear it in. On occasion it may scratch and dig up an area of my yard. So I got some hand held scanner footage, but couldn’t remember how to record on the scope. I ranged it at 15 yards and guessed my hold. I forgot that I haven’t gotten my DOPE for close up shots with this scope. I took the shot offhand and hit low into the dirt. That dillo hauled ass!! I mean he seriously ran off. I changed my hold and squeezed the trigger again annnnnnd nothing.. The mag didn’t advance. So I lifted the lever and manually advanced it but by then the critter was out of sight. I’d much rather have this issue here working dillos than to be on some hogs and have this happen. I have to get this figured out. I know I didn’t seat all of the pellets deeply within their chambers. That misfire really sucked because if I could’ve gotten off another shot or two I may have hit the dillo before it made its way into a hole. I may go out there in a bit and see if it feels comfortable enough to come back out.
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It started raining so I’m back in. I didn’t see a dillo or a coyote, but saw most other animals besides foxes and skunks. So I have managed to find a way to carry the rifle across my body that is somewhat comfortable. I could stand some core strengthening because my lower back is aggravated again. My hand scanner battery died so I did a lot of scanning with the rifle. It’s not as difficult as I thought, but it will cause a few muscle groups to burn or ache until you acclimate them with weight.
I found a couple of small things I can do to prevent myself from being easily detected by making noise while trying to stalk or walk quietly. I need to change the front sling mount. That loop on the front with the clasp attached to the sling makes too much noise while moving around or shouldering the gun because movement releases tension enabling the clasp to move around. The two metal pieces “clink” against one another. Metal on metal in the field is no good. A temporary fix I’ve used in the past is to wrap electrical tape around the loop. It works until it wears through. I ended up mounting the pic rail adapter farther forward on the rail because the sling’s clasp was bumping my tripod after setting the gun/tripod down and reaching for the pan knob to unlock the ballhead after transport. The arca plate and pocket rail mounted sling adapter were too close together. I have some other slings I can try and I think I have a QD swivel pic rail mount as well. I think the QD swivel mount up front will be much quieter.
I’m learning while experimenting with different hunting configurations of this rifle. I’m getting more comfortable shouldering the rifle, but this butstock can run me raw the way I was using the corner of the butstock as a rest and pivot point. I also like not having those plastic cages on the rifle over the rear of the barrel. They can clank around too. I hate a noisy hunting gun, especially when it easily makes noise while moving around during a night hunt.
Edited for clarity.
I found a couple of small things I can do to prevent myself from being easily detected by making noise while trying to stalk or walk quietly. I need to change the front sling mount. That loop on the front with the clasp attached to the sling makes too much noise while moving around or shouldering the gun because movement releases tension enabling the clasp to move around. The two metal pieces “clink” against one another. Metal on metal in the field is no good. A temporary fix I’ve used in the past is to wrap electrical tape around the loop. It works until it wears through. I ended up mounting the pic rail adapter farther forward on the rail because the sling’s clasp was bumping my tripod after setting the gun/tripod down and reaching for the pan knob to unlock the ballhead after transport. The arca plate and pocket rail mounted sling adapter were too close together. I have some other slings I can try and I think I have a QD swivel pic rail mount as well. I think the QD swivel mount up front will be much quieter.
I’m learning while experimenting with different hunting configurations of this rifle. I’m getting more comfortable shouldering the rifle, but this butstock can run me raw the way I was using the corner of the butstock as a rest and pivot point. I also like not having those plastic cages on the rifle over the rear of the barrel. They can clank around too. I hate a noisy hunting gun, especially when it easily makes noise while moving around during a night hunt.
Edited for clarity.
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I wanted to address my Rattler’s magazine cycling issue further by adding some advice that I hadn’t previously posted. The quoted excerpt below comes from correspondence with Shane at AOA:
“Regarding the magazine cycling, the cold can definitely affect it. You can try to increase the airflow going to the mag by adjusting a screw underneath the loading gate you slide up and down on the right hand side. Underneath that, you have two screws both 3mm allen, the bottom one adjusts the air flow to the mag and if you turn it counterclockwise you can have more air go to cycling the mag.”
I have not tried making this adjustment yet.
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Wow. If you have eliminated the puff of air on your face, then that allen screw sounds like a good thing to try.
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