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WRABF…..ERABSF…..USARB 25 meterTarget post 11/30/15

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Well my local match got washed out...

The problem whenever I hear of a pellet rifle shooting 1/2 MOA is that I dont know how you do that in the real world day in and day out. Why? Pellets, simple at that. I have shot many many 3+ groups at 100m that are 1/2 MOA or less. Make those 5 or 10 shot groups, MUCH harder to do, make them 20+ shot and its nearly impossible. I sort my pellets, visually inspect them, weigh them and resize them, and the idea of being able to print a 20 shot 1/2 MOA group is virtually laughable with the pellets available today.

I hear that the 100m air rifle game in the EU is exploding too. I would love to see a good popularity jump and get some governing body(ies) pick it up and standardize the rules.
 
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Sorry to hear that you guys got rained out- was a good shooting weekend for me -
but I agree- the pellets we are getting now - from .177s to .30 caliber are very inconsistent,
that is our Achilles heal -- the .30 caliber pellets here are all over the place - absolutely no uniformity -
i believe in Europe there is a lot of bullet guns - 
Alfred of Beaumont rifles tells me he has a special deal worked out with a barrel maker and pellet maker? 
To get that consistent connection ?
hes also going to make me this tool to acurize the .30 caliber pellets 

i hope the game of benchrest continues to grow though. Cause down here there isn't much going on?
im a bit exited that some of the pistol shooters at our silhouette matches are now starting to show a wee 
bit of interest in rifles - seeing some of the rifles available under the thousand dollar mark that can be competitive 
should be a good thing
CK
P.S 
I would add that it would be a good test to shoot a 25 Bull card out at distance - be it 50 yards or 100 yards -
I think this is better than just trying to group pellets into one hole?
 
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I went with the NOE dies for the 30cal.

https://imgur.com/KjjEq


I have been looking for a bullet/slug for my RAW but so far none have been able to out perform a pellet... I know Martin at RAW has been experimenting with bullets/slugs which I think is mostly being driven by the EU market.

We used to do a silhouette match here until we lost range time... A variation to say the least... small bore at 44m and 60m and big bore at 77m and 100m off a rest or bipod. I would love to see more shooting activities for air gunners. 

I think some of the stuff that the long range shooters of Utah are doing would go over very well with air gunners. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXPvo1FsLNdG6kYqeYci3Wg
 
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"Coldking"P.S 
I would add that it would be a good test to shoot a 25 Bull card out at distance - be it 50 yards or 100 yards -
I think this is better than just trying to group pellets into one hole?
Click to expand...
So I'm a bit opinionated about this...

Groups are great for testing variance, yours or your equipment or your environment.

Single bulls are great for testing consistency, yours, your equipment or your environment. 

For the most part I use the 25m card at all distances and all calibers and rarely shot groups, knowing that I will always have a flyer or two...
 
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Hey Percula - where did you get the NOE dies ?
I got finished a bit early and decided to shoot out at 50 yards - the RAW -
windy -but I wasn't really worried about it at 50 yards - probably be all over the place at the 100 yard mark?


i need to stretch out to the 100 yard mark but really feel that 50 yards is about it with this fps and pellets?

also ran a few cleaning patches - man was the barrel dirty ! 
Id cleaned the barrel the last time I'd shot, but this dirt was after 30 shots?
CK
 
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http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=104
You need the sizing die, bushing and push rod for complete set. The die will fit any typical reloading press, same for the push rod.

My last 100y card... seems like over 900fps things start getting out of wack, but don't let that stop you from testing.
https://imgur.com/q4VFpZT


I don't see a lot of lead on those patches, so looking good IMO.
 
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Thanks for the info Percula - I maxed out the rear hammer spring adjustment- all the way in. -seeing 888 to 895 average with the 46 grain pellets -
you don't think that the first patch is filthy ? LOL - guess its a matter of perspective -I was shocked at all the greasy looking grey -----
looking at you card is what causes me pause that the rifle as it sits is a good competition rifle for anything up to 75 yards?
i think Now that I actually own one, the RAW is a great value for money ---the more I shoot it the more I like it! Build and refinements are first rate---
i will most definitely check out the sizing die and push rod - Alfred is in the Netherlands- so can't say when I'll be getting the set?
but do you think that maybe the RAW .30 should be limited to 50 and 75 yard shoots?
CK
 
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That is an excellent 100 yd target. I make it to be 25 shots in approx 1.25 in ctc.

I can't help smiling when thinking back to 2007 when Terry Doe and Ben Taylor, two English gurus, denigrated me for writing of the 100 yd moa groups of 5 shots I had been shooting since 2003 after Aussie Chris Thomas shot the very first in June 2002.
Terry wrote that they had only been able to shoot 3 to 4 inch groups in a warehouse using a row of candles as air current indicators!
Shortly afterwards three young Welsh field target shooters cut a 100 yd track through some bush and one of them shot a 5 shot sub inch group with his sub 12 fpe .177 from a field target sitting position. They were kind enough to write to me thanking me for the hours I had spent trying to explain all the ins and outs of methodology and of pellet preparation I used at the time.
Enjoy your fine shooting! Best regards, Harry in OZ.

 
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I think the problem is the pellets for 100y/m more than the rifle. I say play with the FPS, faster isn't always the answer. I know of one instance where a certain rifle with a reputation of not shooting a heavy pellet for its caliber was slowed down into the mid 700's and suddenly gained BR accuracy. Sorry for being so vague but I haven't been given permission to share the details of that testing.

I'm shooting at about 880fps with the so called 46gr pellets. Excluding flyers I'm seeing very good results. Most people are in the 850fps to 900fps range with good results. If we can get the pellets sorted out I don't see any reason to not see consistent 1/2 MOA at 75 and 100 distances. 

This is my last competition target for 100m with the RAW. The winds were mostly consistent, but definitely were the major factor especially on top (2) bulls and the right side 2nd from the top. The top left the shot on the left side of the bull cutting the 8 ring is a flyer. The bull with the one shot on the 6 ring was a major flyer. As you can see from the groups in the center (sighters) the rifle is definitely delivering 1/2 MOA. I only consider (2) of the (60) shots on that target flyers, the rest are variations in the winds. I think once I have my SEB rest I will have a chance of closing in on a perfect score. My rest just doesn't adjust fast enough to shot sighters, get the exact dope and move back to a scoring bull. 

https://imgur.com/h1OSJus


 
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"Yrrah"That is an excellent 100 yd target. I make it to be 25 shots in approx 1.25 in ctc.

I can't help smiling when thinking back to 2007 when Terry Doe and Ben Taylor, two English gurus, denigrated me for writing of the 100 yd moa groups of 5 shots I had been shooting since 2003 after Aussie Chris Thomas shot the very first in June 2002.
Terry wrote that they had only been able to shoot 3 to 4 inch groups in a warehouse using a row of candles as air current indicators!
Shortly afterwards three young Welsh field target shooters cut a 100 yd track through some bush and one of them shot a 5 shot sub inch group with his sub 12 fpe .177 from a field target sitting position. They were kind enough to write to me thanking me for the hours I had spent trying to explain all the ins and outs of methodology and of pellet preparation I used at the time.
Enjoy your fine shooting! Best regards, Harry in OZ.

Click to expand...
A big THANK YOU goes to you Harry! Seriously I don't think many if any at all were really looking at pellets before you started doing your work. 
 
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Looks good Percula -
i think staying in the 890 to 900 fps range should do it with the .30 caliber pellets in the 46 grain range ?
but your right - in that the consistency of these pellets is terrible - weights are all over the place -
also heads appear to be of mixed sizes -
when emailing Alfred of Beaumont - he tells me that these 1/2" groups are being obtained with solids -but 
has a deal worked out between a pellet maker and barrel maker to get the consistency nessasary to achieve those results at 100 yards ?
i think for the moment the what you see is what you get is the state of the art though --
time will tell though as many chase the distance shoots 
CK 
p.s 
do you have your hammer spring maxed inward?
 
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"Coldking"Looks good Percula -
i think staying in the 890 to 900 fps range should do it with the .30 caliber pellets in the 46 grain range ?
but your right - in that the consistency of these pellets is terrible - weights are all over the place -
also heads appear to be of mixed sizes -
when emailing Alfred of Beaumont - he tells me that these 1/2" groups are being obtained with solids -but 
has a deal worked out between a pellet maker and barrel maker to get the consistency nessasary to achieve those results at 100 yards ?
i think for the moment the what you see is what you get is the state of the art though --
time will tell though as many chase the distance shoots 
CK 
p.s 
do you have your hammer spring maxed inward?
Click to expand...
I'll be looking forward to the Beaumount, also looking forward to see what Martin at RAW puts out this year. 

So the spring... Working by myself I cranked it to the point that I thought I was going to break something or was bottomed out and was still not where I wanted to be. I contacted Mark and we worked on it at the next match. All I can tell you is that a combination of fiddling with it and shooting it gave me a lot more adjustment. I'm a good full turn and a little more from bottoming out now. You might get in touch with Martin and ask him if he used a single or double spring on your rifle. Mark tells me the double spring is much nicer to adjust than the single. Also was advised that until you have about 2000+ rounds through it, you are still breaking it in. 

I would love to see more pellet selection in 30cal. As it stands now JSB is the only game. Would love to try a 30cal piledriver, would love to try a "monster or beast" style JSB. I have no problem with "lobbing" high arcs into a bull. I used to hunt big game with a 41mag off a 10" barrel at hundreds of yards just fine thank you. 
 
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"Coldking"Hey Percula - where did you get the NOE dies ?
I got finished a bit early and decided to shoot out at 50 yards - the RAW -
windy -but I wasn't really worried about it at 50 yards - probably be all over the place at the 100 yard mark?


i need to stretch out to the 100 yard mark but really feel that 50 yards is about it with this fps and pellets?

also ran a few cleaning patches - man was the barrel dirty ! 
Id cleaned the barrel the last time I'd shot, but this dirt was after 30 shots?
CK
Click to expand...
CK, you have more trouble with dirty barrels than anyone I know. My RAW doesn't get anywhere near that dirty. We'll have to start calling you Mr. Dirt.
 
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The barrel on the .30 RAW is a button rifled barrel - 
you can call me Mr Dirt Paul😬
But maybe you guys just ain't cleaning em all that well?
the polygon - that gave me so much trouble - with fouling - well let's just say it isn't a problem anymore 
unfortunately fire lapping really doesn't have the same effect on air rifles in that there isn't much pressures -nor combustion-
but the lead can act as a polishing agent - 
it's the shards thatvwere causing me the grief in the polygon 
on the RAW .30 there wasn't really any degradation of accuracy - just thought I'd clean her
CK
 
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