Results XFT at PRGC on 04/22/2023 Match Results

[Franklink]

10 competitors for today's match: 7 shooting pellets, 2 sluggers, and 1 rimfire. 1st XFT match for the rimfire shooter and we were glad to have him-hope he decides to take on the course again in the future. One of Ben's friends was also joining us for the first time, sharing Bens gun-also hope to see more of him.

It was a bright/hot/sunny/fun/challenging/frustrating day. The wind blew from every possible direction and from 0 all the way up to 14miles per hour. It was switching directions from one shot to the next. I know I had to vary my hold-offs from one shot to the next...often. And I had guys tell me the wind kept getting them too (hold left, not enough, hold more left, and pellet hits further left than they held = wind switched....again).

I really enjoyed an all new course, made it more fun and interesting. For the first time ever I ranged each target with a laser rangefinder before shooting. This felt much more natural, as this is how I shoot when I'm popping pest birds, ground squirrels, or pdogs and I felt like I kinda "got in the groove" doing it in this manner. Without factoring in the wind, the overall Extreme Troyer score for the course this month was a 32.5. Scores would suggest the wind made it harder than that 32.5 implies. Notice I circled the 3 targets with the highest Ts. You'll find columns in the boxscore that coincide with how each shooter did on those 3 theoretically "hardest" targets.

Details on the high score pellet and slug rigs

• For high pellet....Peykan was shooting the new .30/56 grain pellets from ZAN, at about 900fps. He didn't have much validated data but was able to gather data for 25, 50, 75, and 100 yards prior to the match. Last I heard, he used 900fps as the speed in Strelok, and a BC of 0.048. He started with 0.052 but needed to drop the BC down as he corrected actual to predicted. He may have made other tweaks afterwards that I was not aware of.
• For high slug....I shot the 34grain Varmint Knockers at 1000fps, using a BC of 0.12. Peykan told me the 44/48 is the new record for highest score shot from slugs at one of these XFT @ PRGC matches. He was the previous record holder, at 43/48.

Thanks to all who attended and/or helped setup and tear down for the match. Also thanks to Phoenix Rod and Gun Club for hosting/tolerating us. Thanks to Peykan for the following photos. (And a personal thanks from me to Tenacious Airguns/Derrick Wall for tuning and lending me the AGT Vulcan 3 that I shot today).

This gun shot the high pellet score...

Peykan, with Ben and Tom in the background

Ben giving some instruction to Tom....

 

[Sturkis]

Thanks for the great write up and the new record slug score Cole! Had a great time but the wind made it a little frustrating. My shooting partner was Wayne R and he cleaned lane 12! Thanks to all the helpers. We put in almost 8 hrs Friday to set up for the match to make it interesting.
My thermometer read 103 at the match end. So it was toasty. Next month should be cooler since it’s a night match.

Mike

 

[XSUltimate]

Wicked good shooting by all!!!!!
Thx
Dan

 

[steve123]

Congrats to Peykan and Cole!!!

Slugs are proving out this year at XFT. First in Peykan's and Mike's Panthera's, and now Cole's borrowed Dwall Vulcan 3. The extra BC and speed apparently helps.

It was fun for me shooting the course set up differently while also using slugs. Also an interesting experiment for me to try out a Athlon DMR Helos G2 2-12x42 on 12x for most of the match, but I used 10x for offhand which helped me not feel so shaky.
I saw some of my hits on the steel on 12x which I wasn't expecting to see!

It seems like trying the new unmodified scope mount, as well as different scope rings, solved my POI shifts so it felt good knocking down most of the steel this time.

But yes I did miss using my Anschutz 22 rf. However I think I'll keep shooting in slug division for the rest of this year.

 

[Franklink]

I noticed the 12x max on your scope when I was working through the scorecards to compile the equipment list. And it surprised me. Actually wondered if it was a typo but then figured if anybody can get their scope specs written down correctly it's Steve M, the scope guru.

Glad to hear you solved your poi shifts, shooting "bb guns" out to 100 yards is hard enough without having to deal with that frustration.

Yes, slugs have finally put in some better scores than pellets these last couple matches. And I also agree about the speed and BC and how the recent/better slug scores seem to coincide with people now shooting heavy slugs at fast speeds. We weren't seeing the slugs do too well when guys were trying 20.2grainers at similar fpe to .22 Monster RDs. I was squadded with Wayne M and we were talking about it a bit. Seems the thresholds for slugs to be worth it (versus high BC pellets) is fpe north of 60-65 and a BC better than about 0.09-0.1. Which opens the can of worms of fewer guns being able to put out that kinda power. If I'm stuck in the 50fpe realm (because of the gun I own) I'm choosing high BC pellets over slugs every single time.

 

[steve123]

I'm interested to see how Bobby would do with those 20.5gr??/ .177 NSA slugs/ in XFT. They have a decent BC even though they are lightweight, unlike the same grain weight in 22 caliber. I think he's got the velocity around 975 fps and they group well at 100Y from what I hear.

But yeah otherwise the lower BC slugs just don't seem to do very well at the XFT.

 

[steve123]

Thanks for the great write up and the new record slug score Cole! Had a great time but the wind made it a little frustrating. My shooting partner was Wayne R and he cleaned lane 12! Thanks to all the helpers. We put in almost 8 hrs Friday to set up for the match to make it interesting.
My thermometer read 103 at the match end. So it was toasty. Next month should be cooler since it’s a night match.

Mike

I wasn't going to come down to Phoenix because I thought I wouldn't tolerate the heat well. Fortunately I found a guy down there to do some swapping with so I had two reasons to come down yesterday. I was glad I came anyway and the heat didn't bother me at all?!

I'm looking forward to the summer night matches to start next month as well.

 

[Franklink]

I'm interested to see how Bobby would do with those 20.5gr??/ .177 NSA slugs/ in XFT. They have a decent BC even though they are lightweight, unlike the same grain weight in 22 caliber. I think he's got the velocity around 975 fps and they group well at 100Y from what I hear.

But yeah otherwise the lower BC slugs just don't seem to do very well at the XFT.

I've shot one of his .177 rigs, set up to shoot those heavy- for-caliber NSA slugs at long range and they do seem to possibly be an exception.

 

[zx10wall]

Good shooting Peykan and Cole. You guys were way out in front of the field in very tricky conditions.

 

[Aimright]

Congratulations to Cole ,Peykan, Wes, and Mike - nice shooting guys! Sorry I missed it and couldn’t help out on the Friday set up, was in eastern Az with grandkids for their junior spring turkey hunt. Oh oh Cole, does this mean you are considering a slug barrel for the Ghost?

Scott

 

[steve123]

I don’t think speed is that much of a factor. FPE and BC far outweigh speed with slugs. I’ve been shooting the Altaros slugs in .25 at 49.5 grains 890 fps. (87 FPE). BC of G1 at 0.21 or G7 at 0.111.

Try to make it out to some of those night matches so we can see how well the slugs do as time goes by.

I'll be using those Altaros 49.5 gr also at whatever velocity Derrick has found to shoot best.

I don't think 100 fps different in speed will make much of a difference either but at some point as the velocity is slowed down it will start to have a deficit. Where exactly the deficit starts who knows.

The sweet spot seems to be from high 800's to low 1000's in fps?? Wherever the tune likes to be.

It'd be interesting to know everyone's velocities. Maybe Ben will include our fps information on our sign in sheet along with the other info we already give.

 

[steve123]

What deficit? I don’t think I’m giving up anything at 890 compared to 1030. Convince me otherwise?

Maybe not one at 890 fps compared to 1030 fps?? But like I wrote, at what point does there become a deficit in score due to how slow a slug goes, like if you had those 49.5's going 790 fps instead?

The highest scores for slugs from last month and this month might be because Cole and Peykan aren't peaked in age yet whereas speaking for myself I peaked 13 years ago. I'm not so steady anymore, not like I was before when I won a long range series back then.
However those two guys also had the top slugs scores with 34 grainers going around 1000 fps so that is an interesting fact 'so far'.
And well 22rf is going faster still, 40gr/ .16 BC/1050 fps.

If we had the stats of velocity for all the shooters maybe "over time" we could make a better determination if there is a difference in actuality rather than on paper - is all I'm getting at??

 

[Franklink]

Just wanted to share an interesting thing I noticed about the V3 shooting at 1000fps. During the match I commented to Wayne that I got lucky on one shot. I felt myself pull it but the target still went down, and it wasn't a large kz on a near target. Either I fortuitously pulled the right direction for the wind to work out, or (more likely) the slug was gone faster than I'm used to when shooting at slower speeds. In that example, the effects of my pulled shot were...none. Generally, everything about the V3 feels FAST. Reminded me much of shooting rimfires. As a teenager shooting ,22 long rifle I was always really "snappy" with my shots. And it was never a problem, hitting squirrels on the run through the trees in southeastern Oklahoma. Only when I started shooting for precision at longer ranges and eventually airguns, did I find that quick-on-the-trigger thing is actually detrimental.

It's not necessarily the correct term for airguns, but the above makes me wonder if high reg pressures and slugs going 1000fps simply get gone faster, ie "lock time" is shorter. Which therefore makes the gun a bit more forgiving of pulled shots.

Not quantifiable, but interesting, and perhaps a piece of the puzzle.

 

[ZAN]

Congratulations to Peykan for good results. One more proof in a row that those pellets will change the game as we promised!

 

[zx10wall]

I mean with all the practice you had and all, Cole, of course you won!

I'm really just being facetious with my above comment because I actually know you didn't practice much, Cole

But folks are gonna say what they want to say, truth or not!!

 

[scotton]

What deficit? I don’t think I’m giving up anything at 890 compared to 1030. Convince me otherwise?

The velocity deficit is exactly 140 feet per second. Not sure what affect that may have on your pellet stability or shots per fill, I just wanted to prove that I am capable of performing basic math.

My deficit is mostly personality related. I'm still looking for the power adjuster for my deficit.

 

[Franklink]

I mean with all the practice you had and all, Cole, of course you won!

I'm really just being facetious with my above comment because I actually know you didn't practice much, Cole

But folks are gonna say what they want to say, truth or not!!

You're correct, while I had the gun for almost two months, I didn't get to practice nearly as much as I'd have liked.

You sent a 500count bag of those 34 grain Varmint Knockers with the gun, telling me it was tuned for that specific slug. I haven't counted, but by volume, about half of that bag is still left.

This is all 4 of the sessions I had with the gun (including the match itself)....

• 15-20 shots from a bench to zero the scope
  • same day as zeroing-2 or 3 shots at each 5 yard increment from 20-100 yards from bucket and sticks, so figure 50ish shots here (17 distances x 3 shots each)
• 60 shots from a bench when I did the 100 yard night shooting that I described in the other post
• repeated(different day) 2 or 3 shots at each 5 yard increment from 20-100 yards from bucket and sticks, so figure 50ish shots here (17 distances x 3 shots each)
  • also did the one magazine offhand at 35-40 yards during this session, another 12 shots
• match day-15-20 shots during sight in, and then another 48 shots during the match

So, I only shot the .22 Vulcan 3 around 250 times, total. Dunno how that compares to how much other guys practice, but sure was less than I'm usually comfortable with.

(I work full-time, and have 3 young kids, and have church responsibilities, and a father in law's funeral and a broken hearted wife during those two months that I had the Vulcan. While I enjoy shooting, it's often last on the list of to-dos. When I do get to shoot, I try to make the most of it, cramming a lot of high-value data gathering in small snippets of time, hence why I like to shoot at all the distances I'll see in a match, FROM the position I'll be shooting).

 

[Franklink]

@Centercut, Why's that funny Mike? Is that a lot more practicing than most do for matches? I'm curious how that compares to other competitors now.

For comparison.....for REGULAR field target I'll usually work back and forth through all the distance (10-55yards) 5+ times leading up to a match. Shooting way more than a couple shots at each distance. And that's typically with guns I already have dope for. If it's a new-to-me rig and I don't have data yet, I'll work through the distances even more times than that.

I can't see how practicing is something that should be held against a guy. With most things in life, we get better at them the more we do them (practice). Only seems fair that guys that practice a bunch should win often. Look at Philip Hepler, THAT guy takes his ft practice serious! And has GP, State, and National titles to show for it.

Anyway, I was surprised to do so well with the Vulcan 3, considering how much less practice I had with it, compared to what I usually try to get done, pre-match.

 

[Franklink]

It was "funny funny" that four practice sessions were considered "minimal", and you felt you needed excuses after you shot a course record. Thats all. The gun was already set up for you. Most don't have that range out back and if they get in four "practice" sessions after receiving a new gun and before their first match with that gun they are ecstatic. I have to drive an hour and 20 minutes round trip and I'm thrilled if I can practice four times for EFT in two months. It's just a matter of perspective.
You did great with that gun, and I know you're always well prepared. That wasn't a put down, it was an observation. Next time you go to XFT, ask shooters if they ever took the time to shoot DOPE shots every 5 yards from 25 to 100. My guess is the answer will be "not many", if any...
I think it's great you practiced enough and had the time to prepare enough to shoot that well, plus you have the skill since you're one of the best if not the best shooters to shoot at XFT. Where in the world did you get that I was holding that against you? Sorry if you took it that way - my bad.
PS., you are every bit as good as Philip Hepler...

THREE practice sessions, none longer than 35-40 minutes. And one match, so I shot the gun 4 different times. So I dunno if a combined 2hrs of practice (over 3 sessions) carries any more weight than going for a drive and spending half a day practicing.

Yes, perspective is an interesting thing.

 

[thomasair]

You gotta love the hypocrisy of riding someone over their “excuses” while simultaneously providing their own.

“I have to drive an hour and 20 minutes round trip and I'm thrilled if I can practice four times for EFT in two months.”

Cole, I think you shot well because the rifle was reasonably accurate and exhibited superior wind drift over pellets. Good shooters can’t predict where innacurate guns will shoot, but they can predict where accurate guns will shoot.

Mike