Yong Heng, Radiator vs Ice, my results so far (Video added)

[JimD]

Matt,

I agree your setup is working well. I like mine because of the ability to walk up and use the Yong Heng. I do not add water to the bucket and I often do not even slide a couple frozen soft drink bottles of ice in. I just flip the switches for the water pump and the cooling fans, make sure the vent on the YH is open and start the pump. No waiting. I am getting hotter but still well within the 75 C rating for the YH.

If I was to make changes, not sure I will, it would be something like adding another radiator like the one I have and possibly moving them off the bucket up in front of the cooling fan blowing over the YH motor. I might even try eliminating the water bucket entirely. I really like being able to just use the compressor without hardly any prepatory steps. The advantage of eliminating the water bucket entirely would be decreasing the footprint. But where I have it the bucket is on the floor and the YH is on the counter in a room where I can just leave it all setup ready to go. So it doesn't really need to have a lower footprint.

The YH is great bang for the buck. It needs a few simple things like an extra moisture filter in my opinion and good oil but they are not expensive things and with them it works great. I also think extra cooling if you are filling bottles is a good idea but, as you point out, that can be ice in the water, it doesn't have to be hardware changes.

Jim

 

[Chief Ten-Beers]

I have been reading this and was wondering if a long fill tube and made a coil out of say 3-4 feet of the line and placed in the bucket to help make sure that the actual water is already cooled? I have not used one of these, but I am just curious for when/if I may have to try a water cooled model?

 

[Stubbers]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If 30 minute of prep saves me headaches, money, hardware, and keeps my YH cooler than those with extensive mods, I think I'll stick to what is working.

I've seen people add fans, radiators, copper tubing, stronger water pumps, all that, to simply be out-performed by ~30 minutes of prep...to each their own though.

I plan my fills, during the time of day where humidity is at its lowest, another key factor in preparation some may not consider. Morning = bad, afternoon/evening when its the hottest = best (for low humidity conditions). This morning was probably 30% humidity, right now its 25%, and in a few hours it'll be 19-20%. I am fortunate to live in a very arid climate, at least from the airgunners perspective.

I do have an additional desiccant filter, technically the only add on I have to my yong heng. I don't use water wetter, or anything fancy.

-Matt

 

[Chief Ten-Beers]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If 30 minute of prep saves me headaches, money, hardware, and keeps my YH cooler than those with extensive mods, I think I'll stick to what is working.

I've seen people add fans, radiators, copper tubing, stronger water pumps, all that, to simply be out-performed by ~30 minutes of prep...to each their own though.

I plan my fills, during the time of day where humidity is at its lowest, another key factor in preparation some may not consider. Morning = bad, afternoon/evening when its the hottest = best (for low humidity conditions).

I do have an additional desiccant filter, technically the only add on I have to my yong heng. I don't use water wetter, or anything fancy.

-Matt

Longevity? How Many Months, Years, Hours? Wondering what to expect.

 

[Stubbers]

Longevity? How Many Months, Years, Hours? Wondering what to expect.

1.5 years, 16 hrs 45 minutes clocked so far. Still fills as fast (if not faster) than when I originally got it. 3k-4k in 15 min. She has beyond paid herself off.

Also keep in mind I am feeding it 11 psi~ atmospheric pressure at my elevation vs some that get 14.7 psi, so I don't expect to be the fastest filler on the block.

-Matt

 

[Chief Ten-Beers]

Interesting. If/when My little Vevor goes out, I will do more research on them.

 

[Stubbers]

I didn't always do the 30min-1hr prep of letting the coolant/water chill with a frozen bottle, only started in the last 1-2 hrs of its operation because a light went off in my brain that said, hey, you're not getting the full effect of frozen bottles/ice water. I used to just toss the bottles in and let it rip. Maybe that is why it seems to be filling a hair faster too. These compressors like to run on the cooler side, once they get hot, it's likely the seals aren't doing as well as they would in cooler conditions (within reason), possibly due to expansion. 40-50c definitely seems like a sweet spot.

-Matt

 

[Stubbers]

Also, before my 'prep', the water would be warm after I completed my fills, now, it's still very chilled.

The water entering into the YH during operation is very chilled, and the water exiting is...semi chilled.

-Matt

 

[Chief Ten-Beers]

I'm kinda thinking about what using a small Refrigerator and keeping the water in it, and running the line out like a "Home made Beer Tap"? lol

 

[Grey-Kiwi]

Guys, I used to run an alcohol still (completely legal here in NZ. I did make some lovely Rum, and Whiskey!).
One thing needed is a way to cool hot steam (from the still) down to a cold liquid state (final product) very quickly.
For this a condenser is used, and I think that this may be something that could be of use for water cooling a compressor.
A couple of links first...
https://learntomoonshine.com/how-to...ill-free-plan-with-step-by-step-instructions/

I would be running my still for about 4 hours and had no heat problems. The lovely booze came out absolutely cold into the collecting jars.
To supply the cooling water I did have a plastic barrel and a pump to push the cooling water through the copper coils.
In the case of a YH cooler you would use the existing pump to push the hot water (from the YH) through the condenser, and another pump to push the cooling water through the cooling tubes of the condenser.
The beauty of a condenser cooler is the short length of it. You can easily get really hot water down to cold water in a length of about 1.2 - 1.5 metres.
Or make 2 or 3 shorter ones and run them in tandem.
Anyway...I'm sure some of you will easily figure this out from the links above.
Yes, you can still have your bucket of ice blocks and water to pump through the cooling tubes. Every little bit helps in cooling things down.
I bent my copper pipe by bending it around a broom handle. Easy to do, makes a nice coil. You will be surprised at how short a 24' (yes 24 feet long) length of 1/4" copper pipe can be reduced to when it's wound into a coiled length.

 

[JimD]

It is good to think about water condensing in the air after it leaves the compressor. The air is hot when it leaves but cools as it flows away from the compressor. So it condenses in the lines. I arrange the lines and the filters so they flow back to the compressor and then I open the vent every 5 minutes. Noticable water is released. I'd rather remove it that way than with the filters. Cooling the lines coming out of the compressor might help some, I guess but judging from the amount of moisture I vent versus how much goes into my filters I think it's pretty effective without cooling.

The relative humidity tells you how much moisture is in the air but waiting until it falls some because the day got hotter doesn't really make sense. The YH temperature is always going to be well above the ambient temperature and what causes the condensation is the pressurization of the air. The incoming air has the same amount of moisture in it. All you may be doing is letting the outlet air be a bit hotter. The amount of moisture that will come out due to the compression will be the same. It comes out due to the pressure rise.

I'm not a fan of wrapping the lines on the YH with copper or other things to try and aid cooling. I doubt it hurts anything but I am pretty sure there are more effective ways to cool the YH. I think the main thing it does is make it less likely the lines burn you if you touch them.

 

[Stubbers]

It is good to think about water condensing in the air after it leaves the compressor. The air is hot when it leaves but cools as it flows away from the compressor. So it condenses in the lines. I arrange the lines and the filters so they flow back to the compressor and then I open the vent every 5 minutes. Noticable water is released. I'd rather remove it that way than with the filters. Cooling the lines coming out of the compressor might help some, I guess but judging from the amount of moisture I vent versus how much goes into my filters I think it's pretty effective without cooling.

The relative humidity tells you how much moisture is in the air but waiting until it falls some because the day got hotter doesn't really make sense. The YH temperature is always going to be well above the ambient temperature and what causes the condensation is the pressurization of the air. The incoming air has the same amount of moisture in it. All you may be doing is letting the outlet air be a bit hotter. The amount of moisture that will come out due to the compression will be the same. It comes out due to the pressure rise.

I'm not a fan of wrapping the lines on the YH with copper or other things to try and aid cooling. I doubt it hurts anything but I am pretty sure there are more effective ways to cool the YH. I think the main thing it does is make it less likely the lines burn you if you touch them.

Waiting until RH falls doesn't make sense? Please elaborate? Feeding the intake of the YH 75% RH vs 20% will make a HUGE difference.

I for one notice a very considerable difference in reduced water escaping at my 7 minute mark when I release the vent on the YH by waiting simply just for a 5-10% drop in RH...

The compressors efficiency is greater at lower RH as well...by quite a large margin, meaning lowered required run times. To put it rather simply, less water in the air, means more air in the air put unit, metrically.

Would you rather use your hand pump or compressor outside where its 90% RH or indoors where there is climate control and its 25-30%? I mean, if you don't think it matters, suit yourself, but you're really going to have to elaborate on this logic for me to follow.

What impact does air humidity have on air compressors?

In this article, Wuxi Youteng Machinery mainly tells you how air humidity affects air compressors and what effects it will have? Click for details.

www.compressor-yt.com

Dew Point vs Relative Humidity in Compressed Air Systems

What is the difference between relative humidity and dew point? Find out the relationship between dew point and relative humidity and how to calculate each.

fluidairedynamics.com

-Matt

 

[JimD]

Matt,

It depends on why the relative humidity is lower. If it is lower because there is less moisture in the air that day, then you are absolutely correct. If it is just the day got hotter and the same amount of moisture is in the air then it doesn't matter. You may know this but relative humidity is the amount of water in the air relative to what the air can hold at that temperature. So relative humidity always goes down when air heats up. Warmer air can hold more moisture. But if that is all that is going on then the same amount of moisture is still in the air. The output of the YH is limited by how much the air can hold at the outlet pressure and temperature as it exits. That has nothing to do with the moisture in the air coming in. It will typically exit pretty much saturated and that is why we see moisture condense in the lines if we slope them back to the YH. I hope this makes more sense. We care about the absolute moisture in the incoming air and stating it in terms of relative humidity can be confusing.

The only real impact of the amount of moisture in the incoming air is how much we have to remove if our systems are working correctly. I change the little white filter element of my YH after every bottle fill. In the winter when the air is less humid I can't squeeze anything out of the element. I may not see any moisture escape the first time or two I vent the YH. In the summer, the YH filter element will be wet and I an squeeze a little water out of it. Every vent of the YH emits moisture. Not much seems to get to my extra filter but there has to be more getting there in the summer. But if all the filters and the venting work as intended the air going into my bottle is dry regardless.

Jim

 

[Stubbers]

Matt,

It depends on why the relative humidity is lower. If it is lower because there is less moisture in the air that day, then you are absolutely correct. If it is just the day got hotter and the same amount of moisture is in the air then it doesn't matter. You may know this but relative humidity is the amount of water in the air relative to what the air can hold at that temperature. So relative humidity always goes down when air heats up. Warmer air can hold more moisture. But if that is all that is going on then the same amount of moisture is still in the air. The output of the YH is limited by how much the air can hold at the outlet pressure and temperature as it exits. That has nothing to do with the moisture in the air coming in. It will typically exit pretty much saturated and that is why we see moisture condense in the lines if we slope them back to the YH. I hope this makes more sense. We care about the absolute moisture in the incoming air and stating it in terms of relative humidity can be confusing.

The only real impact of the amount of moisture in the incoming air is how much we have to remove if our systems are working correctly. I change the little white filter element of my YH after every bottle fill. In the winter when the air is less humid I can't squeeze anything out of the element. I may not see any moisture escape the first time or two I vent the YH. In the summer, the YH filter element will be wet and I an squeeze a little water out of it. Every vent of the YH emits moisture. Not much seems to get to my extra filter but there has to be more getting there in the summer. But if all the filters and the venting work as intended the air going into my bottle is dry regardless.

Jim

Read the articles above...I'm not going to try any harder than that to help ya understand.

-Matt

 

[JimD]

Matt,

A much simpler way to state my point came to me as I reviewed the articles you linked. We care about the absolute humidity, not the relative humidity. The environment of the YH is much different than the ambient environment. Higher pressure and temperature. I can't see where raising the inlet temperature so the relative humidity coming in changes anything in the right direction. Lower absolute humidity is significantly better. But higher relative humidity at the same absolute humidity is pretty much the same thing.

Dew point is a commonly available indirect measure of absolute humidity. It's telling you that at ambient pressure water will condense at the dew point temperate. So as it goes up, the absolute humidity is increasing.

Jim

 

[JimD]

I scanned your articles. They support the point I am trying to make but I may not be making it very well.

 

[Stubbers]

I scanned your articles. They support the point I am trying to make but I may not be making it very well.

No, they do not.

-Matt

 

[Stubbers]

"Or to put it simply, relative humidity indicates the actual water content of air as a percentage of the maximum amount it could possibly hold. The term absolute humidity is less common: it describes the actual amount of water vapour in the air in g/m3. This also depends on the temperature of the air"

-Matt

 

[Stubbers]

I'd MUCH rather fill my tanks when its 70F outside and 19% RH, than 70F outside and 50% RH (I also avoid rainy days)... Likewise I would rather fill at 19% RH and 90F than 30% RH and 75F....or rather, in the afternoons when humidity is generally at its lowest, given optimal conditions and no change in dew point.

You keep doing your thing, I'll keep doing mine, we don't have to agree here.

-Matt

 

[Stubbers]

The most simple statement I could possibly make is, I'd rather fill my tanks or airguns in the desert than on a sailboat, regardless of method of fill and filtration in use, provided ample cooling of the compressor.

And for any readers who may be confused...here is a visualization.

-Matt