HW/Weihrauch Your grandpa's HW 30

I recently acquired a pre-Beeman iteration of the classic HW 30, and thought a comparison to Beeman's equally classic evolution of the design - the "Gary Goudy stock" R7 - might be of interest. The current HW 30 has of course evolved beyond either of these in some details. I believe the HW 30 was introduced in the early 1960's; note that as old as my R7 is, this HW 30 was already old enuff to drink before it was born, lol...!
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The R7 was Beeman's effort to bump a junior-sized European rifle up into his "American adult airgun" market. Its stock is longer and heavier; adding a buttplate, grip checkering, Monte Carlo comb line, and the famous extension of wood over the breech block. The HW 30's wood is a slender version of the classic German lines - plain butt, rounded grip, and finger-groove fore end.
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Early R7's used a straight HW 30 action, but in order to balance the chunkier stock, they eventually moved to a heavier 15mm diameter barrel. The HW 30S's is 14mm, giving fine balance in a lighter and quicker handling package. Note both guns have the same fixed-post front sight, though the older one lacks a hood.
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Beeman never liked the original stamped rear receiver cap, so all but the earliest R7's dispensed with it and added the safety. The HW 30 has 13mm scope groove spacing, but the R7 the newer 11mm version. Both enjoy the famous Rekord trigger.
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These days we see frequent discussions of barrel lockup issues with the HW 30. Note the R7 uses the same "ball bearing under a bar" breech latch seen on current guns, but the original design had a stout old-school wedge detent. These parts look to be the same ones used on the larger HW 50 in those days and give no problems.
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As much as I like the R7 and other newer HW 30 variants, the old fellow is a real delight - shoots hard, easy to carry, quick to the shoulder. I have an ARH kit on the way for it, and plan to add an aperture sight, so it should get plenty of use in the future.
 
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Here's a comparison of my modern (2016) Hw30 to a 1985 R7.

The Hw30 length of pull is ~13.785".
The R7 is 14.125".

The difference is insignificant considering Hw30 butt is worn and first stage travel shortened on the trigger. What is significant is the reach from the stock wrist to trigger is noticably shorter on the R7. That reduces the need for long fingers or a set back trigger. Weihrauchs have a notoriously long reach to the trigger blade.

The R7 stock is noticeably chunky and adult sized. I think it's a better proportioned stock.


Another notable difference is the barrel length.
Hw30 is 15.5"
R7 is 17"

The R7 also has the same fixed sideways dovetailed front sight as Mike's. This one is loose and why I prefer the newer lengthwise dovetailed globe sights.


This fairly early R7 was sent to me for work. The ridiculously oversized (IMO) scope is only on there temporarily for barrel angle correction. This is a very low use gun that's like a 1980s time capsule. You can see how much I love my little Hw30 by the butt pad wea, but I think the old R7 would become my new favorite if it were mine. For now I'm enjoying working on a little piece of airgun history.

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There was a version called the HW30S-X, marketed by ARH, using a special Lyman front sight and a specific Williams peep that's unobtainable nowadays. You can tell it by the grub screws filling the breech block, the rear right not having been supplied with this version...here's one that started as a "S-X", but along the way lost those special bits.
The front hood is hard-to-find, the original and specific to S-X Williams rear sight (Beeman 624???) impossible to find so this one just has standard Williams peep in place.
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If you can't find the hood, a Lyman 17AEU and a Williams FP-TK-GR can be substituted.
 
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Great point! Jim's site requests that you send details of an HW 30/R7 when ordering a kit, for just that reason - which I did.
The pre safety has a longer stroke and I think the bores might be tighter. I saw one with a Vortek seal and it was tight as a bull's butt. And had other issues as well. Had to size it a few thou just to get it moving.
Maybe I'll do a post on that gun and the work it needed. I have a few pictures of the issues.
 
Ron: Thanks! Nice photos, I never realized there had been a barrel that short.

This basic design has gone through a bunch of minor changes over the last decades, under both the "HW 30" and "R7" monikers. It would be an interesting exercise to compare them (well to a geek like me at least).
 
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Thanks specie! It would be interesting to know how (if any?) ARH's special front sight differed from the 17AEU - note the different heights and "European dovetail" variations of the basic design that are still listed.


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ARH had Williams tool up aperture sights that had fixed dovetails for different makes of guns; there were both sporting versions (low with flush adjusters), and target versions (taller with click-knob adjusters).
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Diving back into history here...ol' Robert Law from Air Rifle Headquarters - not Dr. Beeman - must get credit for first seeing the HW 30 as more than just a kid's rifle. The 1980 ARH catalog had no less than SIX variations with different combinations of triggers, stocks, and sights:

+ HW 30 M/II; Perfekt trigger, basic stock, open sights
+ HW 30 S; Rekord trigger, basic stock, open sights
+ HW 30 S-X; Rekord, basic stock, upgrade sights (Lyman tunnel front + Williams aperture rear)
+ HW 30 D; Rekord, Monte Carlo stock, open sights
+ HW 30 D-X; Rekord, Monte Carlo, upgrade sights
+ HW 30 C-X; Rekord, Monte Carlo, Tasco scope

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These are all ARH, not Weihrauch factory designations; the beech Monte Carlo stock was an upgrade option in Europe (similar stocks were made for the HW 50 and HW 35 in those days - the latter in walnut with checkered grip). These deluxe-stock variants really give away little to an early R7, and only recently has the HW 30 acquired a comparable front sight to the "X" models.
 
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I recently acquired a pre-Beeman iteration of the classic HW 30, and thought a comparison to Beeman's equally classic evolution of the design - the "Goudy-fied" R7 - might be of interest. The current HW 30 has of course evolved beyond either of these in some details. I believe the HW 30 was introduced in the early 1960's; note that as old as my R7 is, this HW 30 was already old enuff to drink before it was born, lol...!
View attachment 510715

The R7 was Beeman's effort to bump a junior-sized European rifle up into his "American adult airgun" market. Its stock is longer and heavier; adding a buttplate, grip checkering, Monte Carlo comb line, and the famous extension of wood over the breech block. The HW 30's wood is a slender version of the classic German lines - plain butt, rounded grip, and finger-groove fore end.
View attachment 510718

Early R7's used a straight HW 30 action, but in order to balance the chunkier stock, they eventually moved to a heavier 15mm diameter barrel. The HW 30S's is 14mm, giving fine balance in a lighter and quicker handling package. Note both guns have the same fixed-post front sight, though the older one lacks a hood.
View attachment 510716

Beeman never liked the original stamped rear receiver cap, so all but the earliest R7's dispensed with it and added the safety. The HW 30 has 13mm scope groove spacing, but the R7 the newer 11mm version. Both enjoy the famous Rekord trigger.
View attachment 510717

These days we see frequent discussions of barrel lockup issues with the HW 30. Note the R7 uses the same "ball bearing under a bar" breech latch seen on current guns, but the original design had a stout old-school wedge detent. These parts look to be the same ones used on the larger HW 50 in those days and give no problems.
View attachment 510743

As much as I like the R7 and other newer HW 30 variants, the old fellow is a real delight - shoots hard, easy to carry, quick to the shoulder. I have an ARH kit on the way for it, and plan to add an aperture sight, so it should get plenty of use in the future.
Great comparative contrastive analysis Mike!!! I own a couple of the older R7s....pre-safety...and always enjoy shooting them.
That slim HW30 stock is certainly an ergonomic one, but as far as esthetics, the R7 is my choice.
Thanks for sharing and taking the time to educate us once again.

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Thank you gents! That's a lovely early R7 John, I believe those early pre-safety ones retain the end cap and 14mm barrel.

It is the curse of how my tiny brain is wired, to obsess over little differences like this. It can be fun...OR...lead to boring your friends catatonic, acquiring stupid quantities of those models that grab your interest, etc., etc. :rolleyes:

If my bride ever got around to counting my old Weihrauchs, I'd be living on the street the next day.
 
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My JM kit came in yesterday, so I've stripped the old HW 30 down.

If you've ever read any of Robert Law's classic Air Rifle Headquarters literature, you know his idea of a "tune" (or "accurizing" in ARH-speak) was to pack AN ENTIRE TUB of moly grease into a rifle! This one seems to have received such treatment...everything inside is mummified in the stuff. It's gonna take a while to de-muck it, but the old lube looks to have been a good preservative at least.

I should have taken a pic of the stock inletting before I wiped it down...yuck. It looked like a coat of silver-grey paint.

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My JM kit came in yesterday, so I've stripped the old HW 30 down.

If you've ever read any of Robert Law's classic Air Rifle Headquarters literature, you know his idea of a "tune" (or "accurizing" in ARH-speak) was to pack AN ENTIRE TUB of moly into a rifle! This one seems to have received such treatment...everything inside is mummified in the stuff. It's gonna take a while to de-muck it, but the old grease looks to have been a good preservative at least.

View attachment 511450
Holy mucking lubes Batman!!! That's a mess. I'm sure it will be like new underneath it all.....preserved like Ramses! Looking forward to postclean up pictures and final results.
 
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My JM kit came in yesterday, so I've stripped the old HW 30 down.

If you've ever read any of Robert Law's classic Air Rifle Headquarters literature, you know his idea of a "tune" (or "accurizing" in ARH-speak) was to pack AN ENTIRE TUB of moly into a rifle! This one seems to have received such treatment...everything inside is mummified in the stuff. It's gonna take a while to de-muck it, but the old grease looks to have been a good preservative at least.

View attachment 511450
I've seen just as much goop in Vortek kits. The last one also had a bunch of what looks like cat hair mixed in. Someones tuning secret?