Zeroing an M4

I just got my M4 Standard .25 and mounted an Element Helix Scope with FX rings. I can not get the elevation to zero without increasing the front ring a couple millimeter. Is this normal? With both rings at the lowest setting and elevation bottomed out, it's still shooting almost a foot high! Does the new M4 have a built in slide to the picatinny rail? Can I flip the adjustable the adjustable rail to fix this, or is there another issue I need to address? Thanks
 
I just got my M4 Standard .25 and mounted an Element Helix Scope with FX rings. I can not get the elevation to zero without increasing the front ring a couple millimeter. Is this normal? With both rings at the lowest setting and elevation bottomed out, it's still shooting almost a foot high! Does the new M4 have a built in slide to the picatinny rail? Can I flip the adjustable the adjustable rail to fix this, or is there another issue I need to address? Thanks
Yes, it is a 30MOA rail.
 
How close are you sighting in? My guess is something is wrong. You shouldn't be having an issue sighting in with a 30MOA rail. 10MOA is only about 5" at 50yds. So if you were sighting in there with a 20MOA rail and still being at least 7" off something is wrong. If closer then the problem is even worse then at 50yds. The Helix have a decent amount of adjustment wouldn't think they should bottom out and still be way off. Something else is up.
 
How close are you sighting in? My guess is something is wrong. You shouldn't be having an issue sighting in with a 30MOA rail. 10MOA is only about 5" at 50yds. So if you were sighting in there with a 20MOA rail and still being at least 7" off something is wrong. If closer then the problem is even worse then at 50yds. The Helix have a decent amount of adjustment wouldn't think they should bottom out and still be way off. Something else is up.
I am zeroing it at 35 yards. I have used the Helix on other airguns with no problem, that why I thought it odd it bottomed out when trying to zero the Impact. After I raised the front ring enough to get it zeroed, it's shooting very accurately, so I don't think it's an issue with the barrel.
 
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I would say maybe switch that scope rail around. The rail should be pointing 30 MOA down, sounds like yours may be pointing 30 MOA up. I had mine on backwards at first because I had switched it and forgot which way it goes. Flatten your rings back out and see what's up. If it still does it, send the gun back and get a fresh one. This should be the right way.

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Yep, that is the position my rail is in. I did a mechanical zero of the scope and got some interesting results. I started with the elevation, turned it all the way down till it stopped then went up 146 clicks until it stopped again. So, 73 clicks back down should be mechanical center. Then I did windage, took it all the way to the left till it stopped and then went 271 clicks to the right till it stopped. This is when I scratched my head and said WTH? Why would there be almost twice as much adjustment on windage as there is on elevation?

In any event, I moved it 135 clicks to the right, which again should be dead center. I dropped the front ring till it was as f far down as it could go and locked it down. The first shot (in the blue tape) was mechanical zero. The next (in the middle) was one full turn of the turret, the 3rd, (closest to the bullseye) was bottomed out!

IMG_4710.jpg


Then I flipped the rail around, facing it in the opposite direction. I recentered the scope and started over. The first 2 shots (lowest on the target) were mechanical zero, the next was one full turn of the turret upward. The next, just above the bullseye was maxed out all the way up. The one under it was after backing it off about 16 clicks.

IMG_4715.jpg


This still did not seem right, so I flipped the rail back around to where it's supposed to be and recentered the elevation again. This time I shot at a clean target at 35 yards. Rather than messing with the turrets, I adjusted the windage by loosened the screws on the adjustable mounts and moved the front one up until I was close to zero. I then sighted at my 35 yard target and did the same. Once I was within an inch or so from the bullseye, I finished zeroing it with the turrets. This is the gap on the front ring:

IMG_4711.jpg


Compared to the back ring:

IMG_4712.jpg


After that it got too hot and I quit. I probably need to try another scope, because the difference in the adjustments between elevation and windage sure doesn't seem right to me
 
I tried a couple other scopes, and I believe I have a bad Element Helix! I put on an Axeon 6-24X (same power as the Helix) and was able to zero it with non-adjustable rings and no shims! I also tried an ATN 4K Pro 3-14X and was able to zero it as well. This leads me to believe my Helix has a problem! I guess I need to do some research, but don't the Element scopes have a lifetime warranty? I wonder if they will fix it or replace it for me?
 
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I tried a couple other scopes, and I believe I have a bad Element Helix! I put on an Axeon 6-24X (same power as the Helix) and was able to zero it with non-adjustable rings and no shims! I also tried an ATN 4K Pro 3-14X and was able to zero it as well. This leads me to believe my Helix has a problem! I guess I need to do some research, but don't the Element scopes have a lifetime warranty? I wonder if they will fix it or replace it for me?
Paul, I believe they will probably replace it unless the fix is easy. Glad you figured out the issues!
 
Based on what I'm seeing is it seems your Helix is switched. Meaning based on Manufacturer specs you should have way more vertical clicks than horizontal. You have the opposite which is concerning how that would happen.
Thanks Dillon, I tend to agree, but when I did the mechanical zero on the Axeon scope prior to mounting it, it had 128 total clicks of elevation and 240 clicks of windage. But, I was able to zero the Axeon without bottoming out the elevation adjustment.
 
The way the rail was is normal. Back scope ring it the one u elevate. Not the front.

Dial ur scope all the way down, then go 10 clicks up..
Sung front scope ring.. leave rear loose enuff u can tilt the scope from the rear about 3mm should put you on 50yard zero.
Well, that's how it works on most scopes, but not this one. The only way I could get POI to match POA was increase the height of the front ring, because even with the elevation adjustment all the way down, it was still hitting about a foot over POA! Hopefully, Element will sort it out. I have two other scopes I was able to zero, so it has to be something amiss with the Helix!
 
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I'll admit, MOA and MRAD are greek to me, but if the elevation range is 65 MOA/18.9 MRAD and the windage is only 40 MOA/11.6MRAD, wouldn't elevation have have more clicks from bottom to top than windage would have left to right? Elevation was only 146 click from full up to full down, windage was 271 clicks from full left to full right. I'm not a professional or a competitor, I shoot little furry pest critters and paper targets for fun!
 
Good Golly Miss Molly! That seems to have been the problem! I removed that pesky zero stop and the full range of elevation is now 280 clicks instead of 146 clicks! Mechanical zero is now set at 140 clicks, just 6 clicks less than fully bottomed out before! I have a sneaking hunch I will be able to zero it now! Thank you for posting that video!