.22 cal JSB Beasts ... 33.9 gr tested in the BSA super Hornet

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Yrrah

Yrrah

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Apr 1, 2015
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NSW, Australia
Since I wrote this http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1473833894/last-1473949223/Expand+Thread
I have now shot these from the Hornet at av 843 fps 53.5 fpe for 10 shots but still at 25 yd.
They made one tiny little hole; and over the Labradar chronograph the average BC is 0.055. Hopefully they will stay stable over longer ranges - we'll see.
I will be trying to shoot at longer range shortly, possibly by Sunday; but will be going to the farm Monday for near a couple of weeks and should get a chance then to video slow motion for stability feedback and to maybe 200 yards for long range grouping. I have to be frugal as I only have the two tins .

It may be of interest for comparison that with the same rifle tune
Eunjins give 890 fps for 50 fpe;
JSB 18.2 gr 1033 fps for 43 fpe; and
JSB 24.4 gr Monsters 925 fps for 48.3 fpe.
Also, immediately before changing the .25 barrel to .22
the 33.9 gr JSB heavy Kings were doing 880 fps for 58.3 fpe.
So the same wt 33.9 Beasts in .22 cal have lost 30+ fps to the smaller pellet base area ie., force per unit.

I also now have some 30 gr Piledriver boat-tails which are giving me a BC close to 0.08 now at 881 fps 51.7 fpe. 
Hope this is of interest. Regards, Harry.
 
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Well now for the follow-up with a big surprize!
Have just returned from the farm. Had a little time to test the .22 cal 33.9 gr Beasts JSB at 100 yards.
Remember; these pellets make one tiny hole at 25 yards.
Same rifle at 100 yards in some 1:00 to 2:00 o'clock wind shooting the .22 cal Beasts and the .22 cal 30 gr Piledrivers each of 5 shot groups:



Now that is the worst 5 shot group I can ever remember at 100 yards.
The low Piledriver shot (3rd shot from memory) could have been stroger wind switch, or heavier pellet (these were not weight matched, just from the box), or me.

Beasts:


Piledrivers (bottom pellet);


The Piledriver BC averaged 0.08; the Beasts 0.05 to about 40 yards (Labradar) but I'll bet as the range increased precession would degrade that.
On the other hand the same weight 33.9 gr JSB Heavy .25 King has shot wonderfully from the same rifle with its .25 cal BSA barrel.
Make of it what you will. .... Harry.
 
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Fe - If you measure the four Piledriver shots' widest crosses on your screen, which are centered on the white dots left by the pellets' head compression of the paint, they are the same width as the Quarter which actually measures 0.955" . So they do have moa potential in this rifle as there was quite a breeze and that was the only group shot; not cherry picked. The purpose was to meet your request for such comparison ( see your earlier response ).
Those Piledrivers are the originals made by PAX (Hugh Earl the UK aerospace engineer who has sold out to H&N Germany) ....... Best regards, Harry,
 
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Yrrah, appreciate coming back with the numbers and the results. I looked at the four-shot group closer and sure enough center to center a quarter would cover it. That's even more impressive considering it's at 100 yards and in brisk wind.

I bought some Beasts since your previous posting but I've been out of town most of the last two weeks. I tried the Piledrivers a while back in my Airwolf MVT but they must not have been very good because I never used them again. Now I have a Mutant Standard and an FX Impact to try them with, along with the Beasts which I never had before. Hope to test them all this weekend. I am lucky to have access to an indoor 100 yards range. 

Do you think the high BC of the Piledrivers (0.08) gives them some measurable advantage in bucking the wind?
 
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Both the .22 and the .177 Piledrivers have a significant advantage in wind when compared to the other very good pellets that I shoot. I have numerous comparative videos to show this, though I don't post many of the videos these days.
An example is: in .177 the Piledrivers drift in a given wind was approx 1.5 inches, the JSB 10.3 gr Heavy Exact was in the order of 8 inches. The rifle was a TM 1000 in that example.

From the BSA JB Hornet the .22 Piledrivers drift less than the same rifle with its .25 cal barrel shooting JSB Kings (25.4 gr) or JSB Heavy Kings (33.9 gr), both of which are moa at 100 yd in best conditions. ... Glad that someone has found this of interest. ... Kind regards, Harry.

 
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How is the beast design different to the monsters in terms of their requirement for a faster twist rate?

it would seem odd for JSB to sell pellets that were not stable with every airgun barrel in the world except the tiny number who replaced their barrel with non-air gun versions. 

Is it possible that there is more too it that the speed of the twist rate? I.e. Every air gun has a pellets they are accurate with and some they are not but currently, all air guns use the same twist rate (give or take). Typically, if one design doesn't work well, we keep trying others until we find one that does. It seems like the less drastic approach than changing the air gun to fit a specific pellet....

I would like to know how well 1:16 RF barrel work with air guns because I am looking for a new barrel for my Ataman and I would like to try a Krieger to see what the fuss is about.
 
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Thank you Harry. I have the exact same one, but in LW barrels as well as the .22LR, the pellet hardy touches the rifling... They shoot awful in all of my airguns regardless of the velocity. I assume that the BSA barrels are tighter...

Zebra (That might also be a name spelled backwards in my language :)); They are longer so they need a faster twist and they are almost fully solid (very short skirt) therefore they are not stabilized as much by the skirt drag effect (like an arrow - front heavy, light tail...). In my huben with 1:16.3" twist, they get stable only when shoot at higher velocity than 1000 fps, unfortunately this is the same speed that they get unstable because of approaching mach 1 and they sometimes spiral... I Get MOA groups with them if I do not include the ones that spiral (about 1 in 5 spirals) at 70m at 1050 fps... But I also notice that the new tins I got are not that good quality...
Form what I have found, there is no heavy pellet that would work in all airguns because airgun barrels are not made for them...
I do not exclude any theory, I am still surprised day by day regarding this topic but what I share are my experiences and conclusions from them. I am happy to try anything and grateful of any input anyone is willing to make. My goal is to find / make a bullet and find a barrel that would enable Huben to shoot well at 80 - 90 ft-lbs at over 100 yards. I know the gun can do it, because it is throwing out those JSB Beast in the same hole at 1100 FPS at 25 meters, all I have to do is find the right barrel / bullet or pellet combination.
The airgun use the same twist because they do not relay solely on gyro stabilization but also on stabilization by drag (there is probably another name for this, I usually call it an "arrow effect"
BTW: all the videos I made so far on youtube with custom barrel huben is with .22LR barrel. It works well with JSB Beast if the velocity is high enough, it shoots reasonable well with standard pellet, but a choked airgun barrel will shoot better... I would say that it preforms about the same as an unchoked airgun barrel.
 
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"zebra"How is the beast design different to the monsters in terms of their requirement for a faster twist rate?

it would seem odd for JSB to sell pellets that were not stable with every airgun barrel in the world except the tiny number who replaced their barrel with non-air gun versions. 

Is it possible that there is more too it that the speed of the twist rate? I.e. Every air gun has a pellets they are accurate with and some they are not but currently, all air guns use the same twist rate (give or take). Typically, if one design doesn't work well, we keep trying others until we find one that does. It seems like the less drastic approach than changing the air gun to fit a specific pellet....

I would like to know how well 1:16 RF barrel work with air guns because I am looking for a new barrel for my Ataman and I would like to try a Krieger to see what the fuss is about.
Click to expand...
The Beast is longer and therefore may need a faster twist to keep it dynamically stable for further out.
Being more bullet-like they may be less influenced by skirt drag stabilization as Gregor implied.

I have a tight rimfire Benchmark USA 3 groove barrel which shoots pellets very well.

51 yards:


100 yards 0.75" ctc the very first 100 yd group shot with the barrel:


Covered by a nickel:


But then I have four other different .22 cal barrels that have done the same and better; 2 BSA, an FX ST and a 15 yr old LW. 

The Benchmark barrel on an FX Elite:

Hope this helps ... Best regards, Harry.
 
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Yrrah, in another thread there is a discussion about "best barrels" for air rifles: http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/who-makes-the-best-barrels-for-air-rifles/page/2/#post-127153 I know this is a potential minefield for opinions, but in your post above you mentioned that you have a "tight rimfire Benchmark USA 3 groove barrel".  So read up a bit on "Benchrest Central" about firearm barrels used in airguns, and also about firearm manufacturers' aigun barrels, and there is a whole diferrent world out there. How did you come about deciding to get a rimfire barrel? And why don't we hear more about them in our airgunning community?
 
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"fe7565" How did you come about deciding to get a rimfire barrel? And why don't we hear more about them in our airgunning community?
Click to expand...
Dan Browne offered it for sale to me. It is 3 groove and my recall is that it is a "tight" rimfire barrel. Dan got it directly from Benchmark. Larry Durham's Benchmark barrels were 2 groove as I understand it.
At any rate this one that I have had shot one of the tightest 5 shot 100 yd groups I know of for Dan (in the .3's" ) including my own and Lampies Lamprecht's. Though Dan wrote he had not repeated one so good. 
I can't answer the second part of your question but suspect comparatively few people have them and on rifle actions that may do them justice. ............ Best regards, Harry.
 
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