So Donny of DonnyFL and others recommend using a moderator that's one caliber bigger than your airgun. So I got a .25 DonnyFL for my .22. And I'm wondering if it will likely be a waste of time to try it on a .177 I'm considering buying. Is two sizes up still any good?
Buy a bigger caliber moderator -- how much is too much?
- Thread starter Dingfelder
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Bore to caliber oversize makes almost ZERO difference in sound perception. Just make sure you are going the right way. A too small bore is problematic. Too large macht nicht.
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...I disagree but there is not like enough difference to sweat...
...I say this after shooting a (.17) CZ T 200 and a (.22 ) CZ S 200 back to back through the same .25 can...
...to my surprise the more powerful .22 was slightly quieter to my ear...
...that said when I buy a "real" silencer for my 6.5 CR it will be in .30...
...a simple answer would be no it is not a waste of time...
...I used a .25 cal Shogun extensively on my .17 cal CZ T 200 with optimal results...
...if I were only going to shoot .17 I might consider the .22 size but why not get one that fits your largest gun...???...
...then it will work on all of them...
...but I am thinking maybe a for a .17 a .50cal mod would be too much...???...
...I say this after shooting a (.17) CZ T 200 and a (.22 ) CZ S 200 back to back through the same .25 can...
...to my surprise the more powerful .22 was slightly quieter to my ear...
...that said when I buy a "real" silencer for my 6.5 CR it will be in .30...
...a simple answer would be no it is not a waste of time...
...I used a .25 cal Shogun extensively on my .17 cal CZ T 200 with optimal results...
...if I were only going to shoot .17 I might consider the .22 size but why not get one that fits your largest gun...???...
...then it will work on all of them...
...but I am thinking maybe a for a .17 a .50cal mod would be too much...???...
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If the barrel is perfectly concentric to the bore especially the muzzle and and the threads are machined perfect you may use the exact specific caliber. It actually does have a sound difference and you can either remove the barrel and put it on a lathe to measure actual concentricity or if it's real bad you can notice it just by eyeballing it.
Here's a simple trick if you don't have a lathe.
Put 3 to 4 criss crossed layers of masking tape on the exit part at end of the LDC be sure it's taped fully on the face of that LDC and wrapped at the end tube portion to keep it from blowing off. Color the round edge around the circumference with a Sharpe. Measure the exact center diameter of that tape that's covering that hole from the outer diameter divide by 2 Mark it. Poke a hole the size of the pellet right there. Follow with tip of Sharpe to blacken that hole. Take a shot and see where there's still black and if it's even all around that hole then you are close. If it's off centered then that's life.
The outer Sharpe diameter circle trace is for measuring reference to the hole in the middle after carefully removing the tape in one piece.
It should give you a general non scientific idea whether or not you can go with a same caliber LDC
If it's really close it's not recommended to keep screwing and unscrewing the LDC on that specific gun and better to just EPOXY it on.
Here's a simple trick if you don't have a lathe.
Put 3 to 4 criss crossed layers of masking tape on the exit part at end of the LDC be sure it's taped fully on the face of that LDC and wrapped at the end tube portion to keep it from blowing off. Color the round edge around the circumference with a Sharpe. Measure the exact center diameter of that tape that's covering that hole from the outer diameter divide by 2 Mark it. Poke a hole the size of the pellet right there. Follow with tip of Sharpe to blacken that hole. Take a shot and see where there's still black and if it's even all around that hole then you are close. If it's off centered then that's life.
The outer Sharpe diameter circle trace is for measuring reference to the hole in the middle after carefully removing the tape in one piece.
It should give you a general non scientific idea whether or not you can go with a same caliber LDC
If it's really close it's not recommended to keep screwing and unscrewing the LDC on that specific gun and better to just EPOXY it on.
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...but I am thinking maybe a for a .17 a .50cal mod would be too much...???...
Probably over thinking things, there Hapo. Coming from me, that might be a scary observation.
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Thanks for the interesting ideas.
Re screwing on and off, I am finding myself doing that on the Marauder pistol all the time because even with the cone adapter, my DonnyFL Koi is not getting enough clearance. It's a pain unscrewing the moderator(and watching out I don't lose the o-ring) every time I fill my tank. I have had some wild flyers puzzle me, and I wonder if that's the reason.
Anyway thanks guys. My .25 moderator sounds useable at least on a .177 and on my present .22.
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I put a Rocker1 LDC that I've had for a while now on my Benjamin Cayden, it's very quiet and I bored it out to probably enough so that it could be used on a 30 cal.
https://youtu.be/uaby7W_aQYY
https://youtu.be/uaby7W_aQYY
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DonnyFL moderators caused accuracy issues on my guns. Also, the threads were a floppy fit on three different barrels. I don't use them due to this, and an inherent design flaw with the first baffle with the flat end cap.
If the moderator is made well, and your barrel is threaded concentric, you won't have any issues with a moderator to match your caliber.
Lots of guns today come with shrouds that require adapters to screw on a moderator. And even some that use squishy orings to center the shroud. Stacking up tolerances on all that junk, and then a floppy fit threaded moderator is where the issues come from. A moderator with a hole that's too big for the caliber is a band aid at best. But, I guess that's just part of it these days.
If the moderator is made well, and your barrel is threaded concentric, you won't have any issues with a moderator to match your caliber.
Lots of guns today come with shrouds that require adapters to screw on a moderator. And even some that use squishy orings to center the shroud. Stacking up tolerances on all that junk, and then a floppy fit threaded moderator is where the issues come from. A moderator with a hole that's too big for the caliber is a band aid at best. But, I guess that's just part of it these days.
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I have a tko on my marauder pistol, it is nice and quiet, the bonus is that you can fill it without touching the mod, and they can send a dust cap that clears the mod.
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What is a TKO? Can you tell me more about it and where to find it? My KOI is to my ears very loud on my .22 marauder pistol. And my KOI is already scratched besides my very real care to keep that from happening.
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It is extremely light weight and very effective. Yours looks to be around 5oz with the threaded adapter. The TKO is roughly 1.6oz give or take.
http://tko22.com/
You can mod your own fill cover yourself using a large drill bit and or a large round file and sandpaper. Just look at the modded pictures you can see how easy it is to save $10 or $15. Or just remove it completely and put a nipple cover such as an automotive carburetor and vacuum cap that fits or trim to fit cheap at NAPA where you can just buy one.
http://tko22.com/
You can mod your own fill cover yourself using a large drill bit and or a large round file and sandpaper. Just look at the modded pictures you can see how easy it is to save $10 or $15. Or just remove it completely and put a nipple cover such as an automotive carburetor and vacuum cap that fits or trim to fit cheap at NAPA where you can just buy one.
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Many moons ago (15+ years) i started into .22 PCP FX and set out to develop the best silencer i could.
As long as your can has a greater volume than the expelled air then the following is my findings:
I was heavily into speaker design 20+ years ago and there is a golden rule to side ratios: 1 : thierd root of 2 : the tierd root of 4 in other words 1 : 1.26 : 1.59.
If you follow that rule there will be no standing waves (resonance) which shares overtones or undertones in the speaker from either opposite sides. In a can no whistling!
Long story short i made mufflers from ø40mm~1.58" - 20cm~7.87" carbon tube and devided the internal length with the above formula and used PC cabinet "fleece" to cover the "spacer" plastic rectancles.
First chamber the biggest then shorter after the formula. The click from the hammer hitting was the loudest thing except from the pellet finding a permanent home.
I think that the fleece thing goes out the window much after .25 as airblast will wreck havoc on anything not "bolted down" in a silencer due to pressure and volume.
When volume of expelled air is significantly larger than total can volume then K-baffles are the best as per design in slowing gas down.
If in doubt then google K baffles
As long as your can has a greater volume than the expelled air then the following is my findings:
I was heavily into speaker design 20+ years ago and there is a golden rule to side ratios: 1 : thierd root of 2 : the tierd root of 4 in other words 1 : 1.26 : 1.59.
If you follow that rule there will be no standing waves (resonance) which shares overtones or undertones in the speaker from either opposite sides. In a can no whistling!
Long story short i made mufflers from ø40mm~1.58" - 20cm~7.87" carbon tube and devided the internal length with the above formula and used PC cabinet "fleece" to cover the "spacer" plastic rectancles.
First chamber the biggest then shorter after the formula. The click from the hammer hitting was the loudest thing except from the pellet finding a permanent home.
I think that the fleece thing goes out the window much after .25 as airblast will wreck havoc on anything not "bolted down" in a silencer due to pressure and volume.
When volume of expelled air is significantly larger than total can volume then K-baffles are the best as per design in slowing gas down.
If in doubt then google K baffles
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Tightest one I have is 6.2mm on a 5.5mm gun. Shoots super tight groups.
There's several variables. But most of my 22s have 6.5mm clearance in the baffles. Alignment really needs to be dialed in.
Sure, you can punch the baffles out. Sometimes the difference is stark. Other times it's hard to tell.
There's several variables. But most of my 22s have 6.5mm clearance in the baffles. Alignment really needs to be dialed in.
Sure, you can punch the baffles out. Sometimes the difference is stark. Other times it's hard to tell.
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I was actually interested to put a .30 Cal DonnyFL Koi straight up onto my barrel via an Eagle Vision adapter (no shroud) on my PT .25 Kalibrgun Cricket. The only question I had was if it would be as quiet or negligibly so than a .25?
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Yup the only reason some companies say one size bigger is because they know..it could be a flaw on alignment and doing that they minimize returns..I have had a few clippings to and if you fix with tape the moderator to a table and illuminate it from the back you will clearly se the misalignment..caliber specific usually with give you a quieter shoot..
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