I'm calling BullS×÷T on Artillery Hold

Jump to latest Follow Reply
JoeWayneRhea

JoeWayneRhea

Member
Apr 5, 2015
4,077
310
62
75762
I read OVER and OVER about the magical Artillery Hold and how it is a spring shooters ONLY way to get good accuracy. Alright guys see if you follow my thinking here . I don't think about the way I hold my toothbrush, my fork at the table , the steering wheel on my truck , or my Dingaling when I take a leak . I just go about my business and do it .What are the odds that if you Over think your shooting "hold" it not only is gonna be hard to repeat , but also kinda takes away from simple fun of shooting a springer..?.... .Not to mention impossible to repeat if you throw the gun up and decide to shoot at a crazed squirrel that has you cornered !! Some springers simply won't shoot straight . No tricky overly complicated" hold" is gonna make a difference. I hate that it's the truth , but it simply is . If you have pretty decent shooting technique your skills take over and you go on autopilot you don't over think it , you just shoot . ....... .My main shooting buddy and I have had MANY springers in every shape and size .We have banged our heads on the wall many times over a gun that simply is a junker . ... We haven't read this stuff , we've done this stuff .... We are by no means experts and I don't want to imply that at all . Just a couple of seasoned amateurs. But there is a formula for springers . It goes like this ....All else being equal ( good pellets , scope, barrel, shooting rest ) as power on a rifle goes up , if the weight of the rifle doesn't also increase then it becomes a scattergun.No hold will change that . There is a lot of violent fast poop happening when a spring rifle is fired . It's just the way they are . Don't get me wrong , it's not the brightest idea to strangle hold a springer with the force you would use strangling a drifter at Mardi gras. .. BUT On the other hand , You also don't need to hold it like it's a bomb that could go off at any moment and are afraid to touch it . A nice relaxed grip is easy to repeat , and if that won't make it shoot straight then try a different pellet . It's always worked for us :) And if you've tried everything else and it STILL won't shoot straight... Park that springer against the barn door...They make wonderful doorstops and they look cool doing it

1582046987_2722540555e4c1f0bd30722.48559186_Screen Shot 2020-02-18 at 11.29.17 AM.png

 
  • Like
Reactions: Tex-Mex, rickhem, dgeesaman and 9 others
It's a process of learning and turning it into muscle memory. Once you've done the artillery hold many times it goes into auto-pilot and the next time you pick up your gun you'll automatically pick it up the right way. It's the same as learning to eat with knife and fork, the first time you mess up an concentrate too much on the falling food. And after "training" you'll ge better at it. Same holds for the driving in your car. Right now that's on autopilot for you but apperently the artillery hold isn't.

By the way, artillery hold isn't an overcomplicated hold if you ask me, it's rather "normal" way of shouldering a rifle. And for springers it's important to let the rifle do it's cycle with as few disturbances as possible which is were the artillery hold comes into play.


I agree with you on some poor springers, just use them as a doorstop, they won't have much more use...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bandito and JimBentley
Upvote 0
Agreed an artillery hold is seldom practical, enjoyed most by sadists, often bearing no fruit.
However... One man's "poison pill" may be another's "antidote".

Please Joe, remind the uninitiated that "BullS×÷T" doth make some gardens grow. Hopefully when all hope seems lost, they might dabble with it (artillery hold) just enough to detect if their beloved springer has a "G-Spot" or not.

 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveV and X27
Upvote 0
I think my main problem is I've gotten spoiled to guns that don't need a magic combination to unlock . Just point at the center , and watch a hole appear .
Best technique teacher for me is shooting longer distances ! Slight and I mean SLIGHT changes show up on down range . I know it's not the case .....But on really accurate springers it feels like the pellets gone before any jump has occurred. On the bad shooting ones it feels like somebody shoved an industrial size vibrator up my butt and flipped the switch when it goes off . And only then do I see a pellet hole slap into a random place downrange
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rawroots and Mike_Lenardon
Upvote 0
Haha true !!

One of my favorite "springers" is actually not a springer at all, my .177 Beeman RX2, traded like a hot potato betwixt my father and late uncle, for she would not shoot... and shooters they were !!! <Dad and Uncle Joe) ... Similarly she loathed any attempt by me to find her palatable... until I employed the most anal of textbook artillery holds... one that made me sick to look in the mirror, knowing full well there was no earthly way she and I would EVER dance that way in public. So now I know she has the potential to brow-beat all but my best PCP's... if only I allow her to place a big brass ring in my snout.

This explains an inexorable paradox... I can't stand to shoot her. Like the "tease" she is... more fun to look at and revel over than fret with.

Ain't that some "S×÷T" ???

I just proved YOUR point !!! ARRRGH !!
 
Upvote 0
Upvote 0
the artillery hold isn't a fixed hold, it's just a way of gripping (or actually not). It's a way to let the rifle do it's recoiling in a controlled manner without too much body contact. For most spring rifles it works, for some it doesn't. It's the same thing as with PCPs. Some PCPs I've shot with hate too much body contact and some require body contact to recoil in the correct way. No particular way of gripping is the only correct way

I don't see the problem here actually XD This is what we call getting used to the rifle/learning it's favorite way of being treated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveV, Bandito and JW652
Upvote 0
For me its more important where I hold the stock and fore stock. On many I put a small piece of cloth tape for my hand and cheek to find quickly. But we shoot clays tossed up with springers. There is nothing and I mean nothing that helps your shooting more than just shooting. And I don't mean a week of shooting I mean thousands of shots. And if you have a rifle that won't do what you think it should. Let some other shooter that you know is good shoot it. Want to see how to use the artillery hold? Look up a real artillery piece shooting and jumping around. I have 8 springers and they all want a little different hold. So try dealing with that. I've seen some show me the artillery hold while shooting a CO2 or a multi pump gun.

And Joe the FWB 300s have a built in artillery slide. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bandito and Ziabeam
Upvote 0
Here is my take on "Artillery Hold" or any other "magical" shooting thingie... Take a springer, any springer, find a pellet it shoots. That pellet will be consistent in dimension and weight. When the trigger is released on that springer it does exactly the same thing every time. The same parts move at the same speed in the same direction every time. If you hung that rifle on a couple of strings and fired it, it would do exactly the same thing every time. Now that we understand the rifle is *far, far* more consistent than the human we can begin to talk about "magical holds". A magical hold is as consistent as the rifle. Therein lies the rub. The human is not nearly as consistent as the rifle and therefore does not hold the rifle as "magically" between one shot and the next. Springers are very sensitive to this magic. It has nothing to do with artillery.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bandito
Upvote 0
I have told this story before but about 15 years ago I bought a TX200 to compete is field target competition. My rifle was zeroed at 35 yards as I remember at that distance I could not shoot groups under 2 inches. Tom Gaylord actually shot at our club and introduce me to air rifles again as the last time I shot was in my youth. I had read about the 'Artillery Hold' and was trying to implement it in my shooting technique. It was a day or two before my first field target competition and the hold came together and I shot groups consistently under 1/2" at 35 yards.

Now the day of my first competition I told Tom that I had found out how to hold and shoot my rifle. I'm sure he did not know how well I had improved. That day I managed to come in second place and in the following competition second place also. For my TX200 the Artillery hold meant to place the rifles forearm on my flat palm and let the recoil pad just kiss my shoulder. That was the only two competitions I took part in as I am not into competition but enjoy the less stressful pursuit of hunting and being outside enjoying nature.

Now that I am in my second air gun era which I started about two years ago I have shot nothing but PCP's. I however two days ago was showing my rifles to a relative and offered to loan him one of my springers to take home and shoot. He was reluctant to do so fearing he might damage something. I have decided to try shooting my TX200 again which I have not shot in 15 years. I have ordered five different pellet types from PA which I hope to get by the end of the week. I guess I will see if I can learn the old 'Artillery Hold' again and be successful. Now to find a decent day to go out and shoot as it is winter here, Bill
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bandito and .20calguy
Upvote 0
"Ziabeam"Artillery hold according to B.B. Pelletier
....same writer (B.B. Pelletier) giving credence to the artillery in a different article...
... arguably for some airguns (particularly springers) it is beneficial, while frivolous technique for others... including but not limited to what you indicated his opinion was in the TX200 article you referenced
Click to expand...
Sorry. I was solely referring to the TX 200. Siting evidence that not all springers need the special hold.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bandito
Upvote 0
My brother mastered his TX off the bench using an artillery hold. I could hang with him at 25 yards with my R9 but beyond forget it. An RWS 54 Air King solved my artillery hold problems not to mention recoil, but man what a beast. The rail the action rides on is ingenious and is its own artillary caririge. An H&N 14.66g ftt gives it 24 fpe and Is very accurate off the bench at 50 plus yards. The .22 has a metal T06 trigger. I wish I could shoot my elegant, light R9 as well as the 54 like some of you guys can, but like AirgunBill my springers get less and less usage as my PCPs take over.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bandito
Upvote 0
Kev, I'm going the other way. I killed so many squirrels around here with my Wildcat I may have altered the local ecosystem. %^) There is just no other pcp out there right now I wanted ( except for a laminate stock Wildcat ) . But that would only satisfy my 'sexiness' feelings for an airgun. Right now the springers are keeping the love fires burning and holding my interest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bandito
Upvote 0
I hear ya Nueces My traditional interest has transitoned into vintage air pistols and BSA 1920s standard air-rifles. My BSA standard rifle made in 1921 still pops a .22 CP at 566 fps with leather washers for seals and is fun to shoot, but I'm just as apt to go turn on my Air Wolf. Sorry to get off topic but the wide range of the airgun spectrum is what holds my interest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bandito
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu