Raptor review/ongoing thoughts

Jump to latest Follow Reply
F

Franklink

Member
Sep 3, 2017
4,715
2
6,035
AZ, United States
I've started a couple posts but I think I'll try to consolidate from here on out and share my thoughts and the gun's performance here.

(to recap, this is a .20, choked LW barrel, full size Raptor with the 500cc bottle and a thimballed barrel)

Other posts can be found here:

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/received-my-raptor-today/

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/raptor-groups-from-today/

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/jsar-raptor-product-support/

First off, the trigger:

1575952362_7543852115def1fea848490.30679608_Raptor trigger.png
 Forgot to add in the comments on the picture, but the set screw for the hammer tension is a 2mm. I didn't mess with the left trigger screw b/c I could do what I wanted with the other two. I'm guessing it's to allow the trigger to slide fore and aft, but I don't know that for sure. 

The manufacturers recommendation was to leave that trigger screw under the grip alone and let the gun break-in. I shot it for a little more than 3 tins and decided it wasn't going to get any lighter so I went for it. On my particular gun, 1/2 turn of that screw took the trigger from (I'm guessing) about a 1.5ish lb pull, down to single digit ounces. I don't like them that light so I gave it about a quarter turn back in. I'd guess that I'm somewhere in the 1/2-1lb trigger break now. 

Also, the safety is not auto-set, which I'm very grateful for. I was afraid I'd have to flip that lever every shot, but I don't and I'm glad for it. I like to just decock (which this gun is capable of) the gun if I'm going to need it to be safe before firing the pellet in the bore. 

Next, hammer/striker adjustments:

1575953926_15456833275def2606188933.13458323_raptor hammer tension.png


Getting the hammer and striker out of balance is not a fun mistake. FPS will be all over the place, and it's a gas hog when wrong. When they are balanced, the gun is very dead to shoot, it doesn't have the normal airgun impression of releasing air and propelling something downrange. In fact, when hammer and striker are balanced, the gun has a metallic, "tink" type of sound when firing, and sounds and feels more like a stapler, even at 35-40fpe. Travis says it has the same effect even when putting out 60-80fpe, when tuned correctly. When not balanced, the "braaat" sound of hammer bounce is present, you can feel the air leaving the gun, it's louder, and it is not accurate (due to fps all over the place). You can make it a very poorly performing, non-regulated PCP by messing up the hammer/striker balance.

Most recent accuracy results:

1575954559_2957325915def287f5c81a9.95011954_raptor accuracy.png


This is at 55 yards. 915fps with JSB 15.89 (just a hair under 30fpe). There are some single shots/bull, and a couple 5 shots/bull targets (handwritten on paper when only 5 shots). The rest are ten shots/bull. Benchrested. There are about 100 shots shown on this target, taken in a row, from the same fill, shot all back to back. So, it shows a pretty good representation of what the gun can do, on a regular basis, not cherry picking or filtering out the flyers. I was giving or taking a click here and there through all these shots. This appears to be the accuracy that me and the gun are capable of. There are a couple low shots in some of the groups, those are from when I forgot to wait long enough between the shots. The fixed regulator has about a 20-30 second refresh rate. If I take a shot too soon, that shot hits low. The adjustable reg is supposedly going to be done in the near future-I feel that will really improve what the gun can do. With the current reg, if I take it slow and careful, it can do 0.6 inch, ten shot groups pretty regularly. If I'm shooting too fast and not taking my time, 1.25inch, ten shot groups. The 0.6 speaks more to what the gun is capable of, and the 1.25 speaks more to what I'm able to do when making those common human mistakes of forgetting to wait long enough for the reg to refresh, or yanking the trigger too hard.


 
  • Like
Reactions: STO
Field Target:

The plan when I purchased this gun was to be able to try it out for FT. I usually shoot Open class and have gone to 10-11 matches per year in the past couple years.

Member Arzrover turned me onto the IFP targets. I've mentioned them on here before but they are a great way to practice field target on paper. They consist of 25 shots, taken at 30 yards, from any legal field target position. The shots have a time limit (15 min I think) but I never need that long to take the 25 shots. Highest possible score is a 50. 2 points for a CLEAN inner circle shot, one point for a clean outer circle shot. Zero points if the outer line of the outer circle is cut. One point only if the outer line of the inner circle is cut. Those close ones are best scored by placing a pellet in the hole, if you can see black on the outer edge of the pellet you get the higher score. No black ink showing on the outside of the pellet = lower score, or a zero if on the outer edge. The inner circle measures 0.526 inches and the outer 0.98. Much harder than it looks, mostly do to the requirement that shots be taken from a FT position.

So, I keep the IFP targets for all my guns that I might shoot at a match. By keeping track of the scores, I am able to both judge the gun's ability to be competitive in a match, and also whether or not I am improving or getting worse with that particular gun. 

For reference, my personal best is with my USFT and is a 42/50 (usually 38-41). Brocock best score is a 30 (usually mid to high twenties). Veteran best score is a 33 (short little gun and .22 so harder to score clean hits-really opens your eyes to how much easier it is to slip a .177 in the kz than a .22-usually score in the low 30s with this gun). HW50s best score is a 26 (usually in the low 20s). 

It is very interesting to see that most of the guns shoot in the same ranges of scores every time I take them out. I chalk that up to what the barrel is capable of, quality of the trigger, how well it fits me, how practiced up I am with that particular gun, etc.

So, up til today, everything I had shot from the Raptor has been from a bench/bipod. I decided, what better way to assess the Raptor's FT capability, than sitting down and shooting an IFP target. My zero was already 30, so good there, but, here are the first 28 shots I took from a bumbag and shooting harness, with the Raptor.

1575955971_4731146815def2e03a57b08.32957495_raptor ifp.png
 

It scored a 32/50. Not too shabby. I realized real quick that the trigger would need to be lighter. I also figured out the bipod needed to come off for this exercise. Next, I realized I needed some more weight in the rear of the gun. Despite all of that, to be able to take the first 28 shots (3 practice shots) and score a 32, pretty dang stoked about that. Literally had not shot from FT position prior to these shots.

Oh, this was at 31fpe, so not entirely field target legal. It should actually be a little easier to shoot at the 20fpe legal power. 

I think that I've decided to wait on the adjustable regulator before I seriously work up the gun for field target. 

This is what I was using for the knee riser:

1575956246_20204488825def2f16ee9fa9.51974764_Raptor knee riser.png


https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/leapers-utg-4.7-lowpro-combat-foldable-foregrip-aluminum-black-mnt-grp002sq/FC-4712274527607.html

It folds up to the horizontal position and makes a smoother place to haul the gun around than the picatinny rail. The pic rail allowed me to find the balance point of the gun, which is just where I like the hamster to be.

I eventually might attach something to the bottom to give it a bigger foot print for my knee. I think it's about 1.5inch in diameter so it wasn't causing any pain or problems. The non-adjustable nature of the foregrip doesn't bug me either. My USFT has an adjustable length hamster, but I always leave it at it's greatest length. 

I also took a few shots from Hunter class position (short bucket and shooting sticks) and I think the gun will actually be better suited for Hunter class, as issued (I'm planning on making a few changes for Open class). The forward weight (remember I've got the 500cc bottle) very nicely settled into the shooting sticks. It just felt more natural from Hunter than it did from Open position. I think the gun could be a real winner for Hunter class guys. No, I did not shoot an entire IFP target from Hunter, so I don't know how it would compare there.

I'm pretty excited for trying the gun out in Open class, once I receive the adjustable regulator.


 
Upvote 0
.20 BC:

Steve123 was curious so I tried to figure it out today. 

I only have one chronograph so....crap in, crap out.

I took 10 shots over the chrono at the muzzle, they averaged 945. I then took ten shots with the chronograph out at 54 yards (slightly in front of my target), they averaged 782. 

Using one of the calculators on AOA's page (thanks Robert)....https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Calcs.html

"Ballistic Coefficient is: 0.0356520009238596" So, 0.036 if I round up. I have no idea how accurate this method is though. 

For the 30-55 yard drop to match up-Strelok called for a BC of 0.05......So, without a Labradar and/or two chronographs, that's the best I can do.

This was all with the 15.89gr JSB pellets.
 
Upvote 0
Opinions:

I like the gun a lot.

The trigger is pretty good, not as good as my USFT trigger, but maybe about like my Veteran. 

Seems to be very solidly constructed. Nothing wiggles or rattles or seems loose or "cheap."

When tuned right, very efficient with the air. I haven't been keeping track of shots very good, but the only time I kinda paid attention was the 100 shots on the same page that I shared a few minutes ago. That was from 3900psi to a little less than 3000, so, it would get WELL over 100, 30fpe shots from an entire 4350-2000psi fill. I'd guess somewhere around 180-200? 

When tuned right, very dead to shoot. Very quiet. Actually kinda eerie because it doesn't feel like anything is being shot. The firing characteristics are just weird, in a good way. When shot, it almost feels/sounds more like tapping a very small ball pean hammer on concrete very lightly, than firing a PCP. We always hear guys saying the pellet smack was louder than the gun, definitely applies here. That pellet smacking the cardboard backer to my targets comes back way louder than any noise the gun is making. I can't even imagine how quite it'll be at 20fpe.

Product support is just insanely good. Travis feels like just another airgun buddy, as much as we communicate.

Can't buy many airguns, even the high-end stuff, where the manufacturer spends the time shooting the gun to make sure it's capable of accuracy before shipping it out. So, that part is pretty cool. 

My gripes:

  • The cheek rest is covered in a mole-skin type padding. The gun moved around inside the hard case during shipping and chewed that padding up just a little. Minor annoyance. I've considered removing it, but not sure I want to deal with the likely adhesive residue underneath.
  • The hammer tension/striker is kinda complicated to adjust. It's not like the Veteran where you can just crank the hammer tension up or down. Changing the power in the Raptor takes some know-how. (Double-edged sword gripe here. Pretty sure this aspect of the gun is also what makes it so quiet and efficient to shoot). Less annoyed with this, now that I feel that I understand it better, but it sure put a damper on my shooting this past Saturday.
  • Fixed Ninja regulator is crap. 30-35fps shot spread is the best it can do. Current tune, if the tank on the gun is on the upper end (3800-4000psi), shots are in the 940 range, if the tank is on the lower end (less than 2400psi) shots are around 915fps. Also, gotta wait seemingly forever for the reg to refresh, something like 20-30 seconds. Shoot too soon and fps is low, and poi coincides (low). This isn't realistic for hunters taking follow up shots, or even for a guy shooting for fun. I don't need that long between shots, even single feeding the pellets. If an adjustable regulator, that is supposedly better, wasn't on the way, this could be the deal breaker for me. 
  • The crown was pretty rough. I was able to polish it out. Not sure how valid of a grips I have here because the polished crown doesn't seem to be shooting drastically better than the rough one, more of a peace of mind thing. 
  • Transfer port was scratching the pellets before I polished it. This may have to do with my odd request of a thimble vs the normal configuration. Again, no huge improvement in shooting results, more of a peace of mind thing.

Overall, I'm very happy with the gun. Reading back through my gripes, pretty minor stuff, except for the fixed regulator, which is already going to be resolved. So, not really any valid complaints it seems. 
 
  • Like
Reactions: Loren
Upvote 0
Frank, excellent breakdown and thoughtful observations of your Raptor! I too started tuning my .22 Raptor with TJ slug barrel and 500cc bottle after the allotted 1 tin through her and came to the same conclusions as you about the balance of tune between hammer spring and striker! Man is she quiet when tuned CORRECTLY! Like you said eerily quiet and efficient. The Ninja reg is very slow to recover which helps me slow down but can’t wait for the in-house adjustable reg. I hope you do shoot it in Hunter or any class for that matter! Nice write up and good luck in future competitions! Keep us up to date on how the Raptor shoots under those conditions.
 
Upvote 0
Any chance you can get into the how to of the hammer / striker length adjustment balance a bit more? It would be helpful to those who want or need to make some changes and not have to call Travis (who is always thee to assist as I have found out), but he is trying to crank out these guns for his peps.

One other thing on the trigger adjustment. If you go too light, the gun will not cock and if just at the critical edge, it can go off on its own. I did some cautious experimentation with that one.and found it to be so. I believe what you are doing when adjusting the pull screw is moving the trigger down on the sear and reducing contact between the two.
 
Upvote 0
Springerrr,

There are many here that could give a much better explanation on striker length and hammer spring tension, but I’ll take a stab at it.

Please realize this will mostly be my assumptions, Travis may have a much different (and likely more accurate since he built it) view.

In an efficient PCP, we typically want the shortest, quickest little blip of air possible. That blip’s effect can have quite the varied effect on fpe, due to barrel length, transfer port size, caliber, etc.

Too much air for a given barrel length and the report is loud and air is wasted. There is probably a valid argument in there somewhere that too much air could even create extra turbulence at the muzzle as the pellet leaves, potentially adversely affecting accuracy.

With that in mind, the valve in a PCP is usually smacked by some sort of striker/hammer, propelled by a spring. The physics of the force exerted by springs is better left to engineers, but heavier wire springs can produce more energy, as can number of coils, and overall length. The distance the striker/hammer travels is also part of the equation of the force it exerts on the valve.

One of the big problems that can arise is if the hammer/striker is allowed to bounce and forth after the initial strike on the valve. We’ve got to remember that the air is exerting a return force on the valve stem that the hammer/striker is hitting. So, it is possible to hit the valve with an amount of force that produces the desired fpe, but also have something unbalanced that allows the hammer/striker to bounce back and forth, hitting the valve with successively smaller strikes. That’s the “brraaaattt” sound we get sometimes. Not good.

Pressure in the air vessel of the gun also has to be taken into account with all this talk of varying the force applied to the back of the valve by the hammer/striker each time. In unregulated PCPs, the pressure has to stay in a certain window for the given hammer/striker energy delivered to the valve. In a regulated PCP, as long as the pressure is above the regulated pressure, shots should be consistent in fps/energy, in theory.

The best way to wrap my brain around all this was from playing with a couple different PCPs. Without that financial expense, the next best thing might be to go over the Gateway to Airguns forum and read all about Bob Sternes “SSG” device. SSG being what he calls his “striker stop guide.” (I think that’s the SSG stands for). Essentially he developed an idea (and devices for various PCPs) that employed a heavier hammer spring, traveling a shorter distance, with the ability to adjust the striker length and preload. The heavier spring still hits the valve hard enough to get the FPE where you want it but is stout enough to resist the bouncing of the hammer/striker back and forth between the valve and spring. Bob’s idea allowed for the striker length to be adjusted as well, allowing fine tuning of power levels. The coarse adjustments in Bob’s concept are the spring itself and the tension on the spring (preload). When done right, an SSG allows for some preload to be adjusted into the hammer spring, which also allows for fine tuning of power output and wasted air. The negative to the SSG is that the cocking force goes up. That’s where the balanced valve idea in the Raptor comes into play. You don’t have to smack it as hard, so cocking effort can stay reasonable.

That’s the theory behind it all, at least how I understand it.

So, for the Raptor. All of the above applies. The gun has both striker length adjustments and hammer spring tension adjustments. The gray area here for me is the balanced valve and how it reacts to those two changes. It SEEMS much more sensitive to both, than a non-balanced valve. It also SEEMS to take a couple shots after an adjustment to settle back into acting appropriately. The first couple shots taken after playing with the striker/hammer spring tension were different in fps than what it settled into subsequently. So, it SEEMS that it has to kind of reset or learn the new configuration of force being applied to it.

I’m HOPING that a given, balanced configuration at a regulated psi of say 2000 produces, say 30fpe, but adjusting the forthcoming regulator down to 1800psi will still produce an efficient tune, but simply reduce the power to 25fpe for example, and reg pressure of 1600 produce an efficient tune at 20fpe, etc. Realistically, that’s probably not how it’ll play out though.

For the applicable, how-to-do-it for the Raptor, I can’t help you a whole lot there.

When Travis walked me through it over the phone I was told to use the hammer tension adjust to get the gun shooting 20fps more than where I wanted it. Then, counterclockwise on the striker (lengthening it) to the point that the gun won’t fire. Then, ½ turns clockwise (shortening it) on the striker, testing a couple shots every ½ turn until the fps is exactly where I want it. At one point, without Travis’s help, I adjusted the striker clockwise until it wouldn't turn anymore, in an attempt to see what the gun would do with the shortest striker length (I wanted to take it out of the picture)-this seems to be where I got it all out of whack. Because of that, we had to go back and forth with the hammer tension and the striker length to get it to shoot consistently again. If you rely too much on the striker for power adjustment, than the fps is all over the place, like 120fps spreads. Very careful balance between the two is necessary.

Hopefully Travis puts out some info on how to do it at some point, maybe when he catches up with orders. A little birdy told me that Hajimoto is working on a video to help us in this regard as well. Most of what I learned I already shared in that original post. The general approach I’ve got now is, “start low and go slow” (common saying taken from my profession as a pharmacist, in regards to medication dosing). Meaning, see what VERY small changes in each adjustment do, before making big jumps. By “very small” I’m talking 1/8 turn adjustments to either striker or hammer spring tension.
 
Upvote 0
The ninja regulator is actually a good reg. My theory of the ES values being 30-35fps is due to the fact that your gun at current reg setting can be turned up to 1000fps + <<< (Assuming) Once you get the adjustable reg and fine tune your reg pressure, you would make it so that your guns absolute max FPS is 20-30fps higher than desired FPS. Once you are at your desired FPS there will be very low ES values since your gun can’t push the pellets much passed your desires FPS anyways. My theory is you are tuned way below the max velocity of the current reg set up , resulting in not great ES. But decent considering shot count. 



That’s my guess at it. 
 
Upvote 0
Hey knife, 

I was playing with the trigger a little more and learned something new. The trigger likes to have a little more first stage travel than I prefer. 

I had reduced the first stage travel to about 1/8 inch and had it pretty light with the under the grip screw. Well, I didn't like the overall feel. It almost has a little resistance right before it breaks when set that way, kinda like the last little bit of flex a pencil has before it SNAPS, when being broken. 

Anyway, gave it another 1/8inchbof travel on first stage and it seemed to drastically improve it. So, at least on mine, around 1/4inch of first stage travel made it break at the second stage even lighter and cleaner. 

Triggers are so subjective so your mileage may vary, but those are my current thoughts on the trigger. It's feeling like a REALLY nice trigger now. 
 
Upvote 0
This was posted weeks ago on some of the deeper tuning that will go on with using a balanced valve such as the one in JSAr RIFLES ...





Let me start with saying what I'm going to disclose myself and Travis Whitney of JSAR had discussed Many times in the past 6+ months or so as the R&D behind the scenes was happening. We had the conversation that at some time these tuning traits should be brought to light and shared. In the past 6+ months further testing and tuning with an Actual Raptor valve ( SS-2 in function ) retrofitted into my WarP , have got to get some really good data and more importantly some Cause & Effect when changes are made in TRANSFER PORT SIZE ... which for now will be the focus of this thread.

To recap on how these valves work ... simply put is by having a DUAL use poppet head, one larger diameter side sealing the valve throat as is typical, Other end being reduced in diameter and extended into a sealed tube / chamber and sealed via an o-ring. * What has happened is the pressure within the valve internal space bearing down on the closed poppet has had PART OF IT'S TOTAL AREA isolated by having the opposing end up in the o-ring sealed chamber. THUS the pressure exerted on the poppet seat is greatly reduced and the valve will break free and open far easier with not only LESS hammer weight, but less strike energy as well ( Softer hammer spring, less hammer stroke etc .. )

While this sounds all good & fine we all like easy cocking fast cyclic actions
cool.gif
there is now the issue of getting the valve poppet to close quickly and this by design utilizes a partially hollow valve stem that goes from just under the poppet head within valves throat up into the end of the poppet within the chamber. * So at any time when valves pressurized the chamber at the upper end of poppet is at atmospheric pressure being vented via the poppet stem into throat, then out the barrel. Yet there is pressure surrounding the poppet that is kept from escaping via the o-ring mentioned earlier sealing it.

Here is where we're going .... WHEN THE GUN IS FIRED there is a spike in pressure filling the valves throat and ultimately launching the pellet or slug. In that very short time span that released pressure travels up threw the partially hollow valve stem and INTO the chamber pressurizing that space. In this instance the poppet which has traveled inward within the chamber via the seat side being lifted is now acted on by the pressure filling chamber and is quickly pushed back down the chamber violently closing the seat. Crazy stuff !! and now with this base knowledge to chew on we will address the purpose of this thread
wink.gif





Understanding the hammer that opened the valve, it's weight mass etc is also holding the poppet from closing very fast being reliant on the Balance chamber to push back so hard the hammers lift on poppet can be stopped with hammer forced to then go back the direction from which it came and allow poppet to close again. This is the tuning trick that for those incline will find HUGE efficiency gains, lower muzzle report and less air used in general at any given power level.

Because these valves have such generous port values, huge throat and transfer path they BREATH SUPER WELL releasing mass volumes of air that produce Really big power !!
Controlling there DWELL ( How long the air is flowing is dwell ) and this is controlled by HOW EFFECTIVE THE BALANCE CHAMBER is to sense the mass flow and SHUT IT DOWN !!!
For once the pellet or slug is underway and moving 1/2 the barrel length or less, releasing more air IS NOT DOING A THING or very little and somewhat caliber & projectile weight dependent.

TRANSFER PORT SIZE MATTERS and is a MAJOR major tuning parameter with these valves and Bigger IS NOT better in many instances belief it or not
huh.gif

AS WE CONSTRICT THE OUTFLOW or air leaving valves throat we are INCREASING the amount and strength of the air that makes it into the balance chamber / tube and gets the valve to close.
Valve opens EASY and breathes volumes, but control of getting it shut down is paramount to Efficiency & a Low muzzle report.

Below is a test recently done while shooting NSA .22 caliber slugs. hammer weight, stroke, spring tension never changed ONLY TRANSFER PORT SIZE. * Barrel is @24" with an elongated transfer port offering FULL caliber port specs so it to breaths to the bores caliber 100%. Pressure regulated at 2200 psi.

BIG transfer port at .250" being slightly greater than caliber @ 935/940 fps
>Caliber spec transfer port at @ .210" @ 980 fps
Smaller yet transfer port at .175" @ 980 fps
Smaller yet transfer port at .160" @ 960 fps
Smallest transfer port tried at .140" @ 915 fps

Whats really interesting is listening to the gun fire with the top 4 tests especially ( All Shots are exceeding 50 ft lbs ! ) in .22 caliber too. NOISE, that of the residual after the shot released air that is the heard muzzle report.

The largest port arguably having excessive volume poppet to slug and the least efficient with a good WOOOSH sound upon firing. * Still making great power !!
With the .210 transfer the report was notably quieter and as a tuner you know the dwell was reduced. YET it making MORE power ... kewl !
With the .175 transfer the report becomes a muffled SNAP and is quieter yet again. Whoa same power too ! Now I know we're wasting less air and dwell has really been cut back.
With the .160 transfer the report sounds like a 12fpe pcp with LDC ... Sounds like a cricket farting being weirdly concerning the guns power had tanked, yet we only lost 20 fps.
Finally the .140 transfer ... about like the above just less power tho still FLINGING these 24.8 slugs with authority !

With all my testing coming to light in this shared manor, I not going to get into efficiency number beyond a recent check I just did a few days ago. That being when the .210 port was fitted and thought I was done and giggle happy. Efficiency numbers crunched at 1.29 fpe/cu in shooting the NSA 24.8 at the above speed which was Awesome. Having just run these smaller transfer port tests just hours ago ... IT'S EVEN BETTER and going to keep the .160" transfer in place for now and see just what the efficiency does. * Have a fun shoot next weekend and will be shooting the gun quite a bit and able to really gain some extensive real world numbers.







Hope this all makes some sense, was not overly long winded and you gain some knowledge from it
wink.gif


Scott S
 
Upvote 0
Thanks Scott, I think I'll have to read through that a couple more times to better understand it. 

For now, after having read that, I think what I was calling the braat sound the gun was making may not have been so much hammer bounce but more likely wasted air due to an imbalance in striker/hammer tension. 

It is VERY obvious when it's shooting right. It just has a distinctive sound, or really, lack thereof. Not being able to hear or feel the air and pellet leaving gun seems to be the best indicator for me that things are "balanced" and pleasing to the balanced valve. 

So, are transfer ports swappable in a production Raptor like mine, or is that only doable in your test platform for the valve (WarP I believe you said)? It seems the general idea of your balanced valve experiments are: have hammer tension/striker correct for the power, and the smaller transfer ports might be a better way to go-(in terms of efficiency and report)- at least down the sizes you have tested thus far. 

Finally, with your .20 experience, what do you think of how the gun is doing, from an accuracy standpoint? Bout what it should be doing or sub par? 

Nothing time sensitive here but would love to hear your thoughts when you have some a minute. 

Very much appreciate your insight into how the valve is working. 


 
Upvote 0
Read through it again.

Sounds like the short version is that some of the air released from the valve with each shot is diverted back into a small chamber that helps to close the valve again, even more quickly. And a smaller transfer port concentrates that air back into that chamber, shutting the valve even more quickly. 

Not a lot different than an AR using some of the combustion gases to cycle the action, while the rest, obviously, get used to propel the projectile. At least that's how I'm envisioning it. 
 
Upvote 0
Veteran vs Raptor:

After working all week, I was really excited to do some serious testing (shooting) today, but this is the hand I was dealt: 

1576361753_1075814905df55f19e7b950.22293807_raptorweather.png


Seriously windy.

Decided that no supreme accuracy testing would be possible today, but still wanted to do some shooting. Ultimately ended up in a showdown.

The left side groups are from the Veteran Shorty, 800-815fps with JSB 13.43gr (.22) about 20fpe. 

The right side groups are from the Raptor, 915-940fps with JSB 15.89 (.20) about 31fpe. 

The process: take a ten shot group with the Raptor, then a ten shot group with the Veteran, back and forth. The idea was that any lull in the wind during a ten shot group for one gun would be averaged out by swapping back and forth. (There was no lull in the wind!!!). 

All 8 groups were at 55 yards.

I WAS holding off for wind and doing the best I could to put them center of bull. The best group is obviously the bottom Raptor group. I cranked those out pretty fast, before the wind could change-that reminds me, everything here is magazine fed shots (no single feeding). Today's wind, and the prevailing wind here at home, was coming from the right, not quite 90 degrees, so from the right and behind my shoulder a bit. The first 20 feet of pellet travel after the muzzle is protected from the wind, after that, they're at the mercy of whatever the wind wants to do to them. About a 4 inch hold-off for the Veteran, and a 2.5-3inch hold-off for the Raptor. Would guess that's the 10fpe difference and maybe a little bit the better BC of the .20. 

Fun stuff.

1576362297_12279178275df561395a1541.55354380_raptor wind.png



 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu