Element Optics Helix 4-16x44 or Hawke Airmax 30 SF WA (20-75 yards - small game)

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Adop

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Nov 26, 2022
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Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Hello,

I am picking a new scope for target shooting (20-100 yards), and squirrel/rabbit hunts (typically shooting 20-50, occasionally pushing 70 yards). I would also like to attach a camera to the scope (either the OrionCam, or the Side-Shot). I currently shoot a 3-12 UTG Compact and am looking for a 4-16 now.

I'm currently looking at the Element Optics Helix 4-16x44 clean (FFP) and the Hawke Airmax 30 SF WA 4-16x50 (SFP). [$500 hard cap budget].

Does anybody have any experience with either of these scopes for hunting or scope cams? On the Helix are you able to take shots with ~12 inches holdover at max magnification without needing to use the turrets?

Any recommendations?

Thank you!
 
Alex, 😊
welcome to AGN! This is a great community to learn, to share, to help, and have fun.


🔸Your budget of $500 is a wonderful amount to get something much much better than the UTG Leaper you're leaping with until now! 👍🏼


🔸Top End Magnification:
Considering your range of up to 100y, to go to at least 16x top end magnification is a wise choice. And you might consider 18x or 20x or as much as 24x (especially if your eyes have a manufacturing date a little father back than say the 80's).


🔸 Bottom End Magnification:
However, as you're squirrel hunting, you'll be needing a wide field of view (FoV) at the bottom end. Your Leaper 3-12x probably has around 30-35ft (@100y), so that's something to pay attention to.
The Helix 4-16x44 FFP you mentioned has only 26ft, that's pretty narrow for my feel.
However, there are other 4-16x that have much wider FoV. You also can choose a 3-18x that will have a wider FoV.
● The brand-new Arken EPL4 — 6 weeks lead time — has 30ft, has Japanese glass with super clarity, and is just an amazing deal. Far below your $500 limit. Here:

EPL4 4-16x44 FFP MOA VHR Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 30mm Tube

www.arkenopticsusa.com www.arkenopticsusa.com



🔸 Scopecams
If you use the search function you'll get some good results for the scopecams you're looking at. I can also recommend the Tactacam as another option.
What is the purpose of scopecaming for you? This will determine what the best camera and scope is....
Do tell! 👍🏼



🔸I will attach below a Scope Specs Table where the specs of different scopes are compared.
Most are right inside your budget.
Separated by FFP and SFP (a difference I find very important if you want to use holdover instead of turret dialing).
With price and warranty information.
Weight, lenght.
Type of reticle.
etc. etc.



🔸 One question: What might be the reason you are using 12 inches holdover — and not dialing the elevation turret?
For your budget you would be able to get scopes that are quite reliable/ repeatable to dial the turrets. Technology and quality has improved greatly over the past years.

To answer your question directly about holding over 12 inches and seeing the holdover in the reticle at max. magnification:
(a) Many FFP scopes in the Scope Specs Table have links to where you can see the reticle at minimum and maximum magnification, and you will be able to see if there are enough holdover hashlines.

(b) 12 inches at 100y are roughly 2.5mil, any FFP scope in these magnification ranges will give you that.
12" at 50y are 5.5 mil, and most will give you that, or almost.
For closer ranges with that same holdover, you'll have to check the reticle images (cf. links).



Cheers, 😊

Matthias


❌ Attachment:
Scope Specs Table 4-16x / 3-18x / 4-20x

View attachment SCOPE Specs Table. For 4-16x or 3-18x or 4-20x Scopes.pdf
 
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Adop said:
... for target shooting (20-100 yards), and ... hunts (typically shooting 20-50, occasionally pushing 70 yards)....
Click to expand...
I have a comment.
Lets start with target shooting. An average priced medium power scope (I am calling all scopes x20 and below a medium power) will not show you the .22 holes @ 100, and if you want to see those holes you will need to drag an extra spotting scope with you. So for 100 meters you are adding up the costs, either 1+1 pieces equipment - or you buy a higher power scope. At least x32 can show you the holes on paper at 80, for 100 distance you will really need a better quality glass.
Next is hunting/pesting. Over 50 to 70 you will still just benefit from a higher power scope, for the games you intent to shoot at. For a raccoon size or bigger the x20 may work.
 
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JungleShooter said:
Alex, 😊
welcome to AGN! This is a great community to learn, to share, to help, and have fun.


🔸Your budget of $500 is a wonderful amount to get something much much better than the UTG Leaper you're leaping with until now! 👍🏼


🔸Top End Magnification:
Considering your range of up to 100y, to go to at least 16x top end magnification is a wise choice. And you might consider 18x or 20x or as much as 24x (especially if your eyes have a manufacturing date a little father back than say the 80's).


🔸 Bottom End Magnification:
However, as you're squirrel hunting, you'll be needing a wide field of view (FoV) at the bottom end. Your Leaper 3-12x probably has around 30-35ft (@100y), so that's something to pay attention to.
The Helix 4-16x44 FFP you mentioned has only 26ft, that's pretty narrow for my feel.
However, there are other 4-16x that have much wider FoV. You also can choose a 3-18x that will have a wider FoV.
● The brand-new Arken EPL4 — 6 weeks lead time — has 30ft, has Japanese glass with super clarity, and is just an amazing deal. Far below your $500 limit. Here:

EPL4 4-16x44 FFP MOA VHR Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 30mm Tube

www.arkenopticsusa.com www.arkenopticsusa.com



🔸 Scopecams
If you use the search function you'll get some good results for the scopecams you're looking at. I can also recommend the Tactacam as another option.
What is the purpose of scopecaming for you? This will determine what the best camera and scope is....
Do tell! 👍🏼



🔸I will attach below a Scope Specs Table where the specs of different scopes are compared.
Most are right inside your budget.
Separated by FFP and SFP (a difference I find very important if you want to use holdover instead of turret dialing).
With price and warranty information.
Weight, lenght.
Type of reticle.
etc. etc.



🔸 One question: What might be the reason you are using 12 inches holdover — and not dialing the elevation turret?
For your budget you would be able to get scopes that are quite reliable/ repeatable to dial the turrets. Technology and quality has improved greatly over the past years.

To answer your question directly about holding over 12 inches and seeing the holdover in the reticle at max. magnification:
(a) Many FFP scopes in the Scope Specs Table have links to where you can see the reticle at minimum and maximum magnification, and you will be able to see if there are enough holdover hashlines.

(b) 12 inches at 100y are roughly 2.5mil, any FFP scope in these magnification ranges will give you that.
12" at 50y are 5.5 mil, and most will give you that, or almost.
For closer ranges with that same holdover, you'll have to check the reticle images (cf. links).



Cheers, 😊

Matthias


❌ Attachment:
Scope Specs Table 4-16x / 3-18x / 4-20x

View attachment 309064
Click to expand...
Hello Matthias,

Wow, thank you for such a detailed response!

Top end vs bottom end Magnification:
Although I will undoubtedly target shoot much more than I hunt, I am more geared towards the bottom end magnification over top end since I do plan to use this as my primary small game hunting scope (all purpose); I will mostly be shooting 20-40, and likely always under 70 when hunting with my .22 Daystate Huntsman Regal XL. That said, I do okay tracking squirrels in the trees between 5-10x with my UTG compact (SFP).

Concerns with FFP low end magnification: Thin crosshair on the low-end - I haven't used FFP scopes yet, but I know there are often issues finding the reticle in low magnifications, especially in low light and under canopy (ie. squirrel hunting). The appeal of the Element Optics Helix 4-16x44 is that they thickened the reticle (not sure on the exact width) for these purposes, so it's really meant to be used at low magnifications (4-6) with the ability to take that longer shot should you need it, which fits my needs fairly well.

1) Do we know yet how the Arken EPL4 reticle looks at the lower end? Is it viewable in low light?

2) SFP - Hawke Airmax 4-16x50 SF WA: Do you have any opinion on this scope for my needs? As a SFP lens I don't have the same concerns with reticle thickness and quick holdovers.

- The 12 inch holdover: Squirrel and rabbit hunting I don't always have that much time to mess with the turrets, so I tend to take quick holdover shots on my current set up. In reality, I won't ever take a quick holdover shot of more than ~5.5 inches, so the 12 inch mark was really just an arbitrary "more than enough" asking point :LOL:

- Scope cam - really just for personal use and showing friends, slowmotion video and pellet tracking, a bit of hunting, and a tool to use to improve my shooting. I am leaning towards one of the firefly 8SE setups, since my phone camera is subpar. The eaglevision can't fit on my UTG compact if I decide to use those two together, and I think I was avoiding the tacticam since it will likely block the lever on my Daystate.

Any major differences in glass quality between the Element, Hawke, and Arken discussed above?
 
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bigHUN said:
I have a comment.
Lets start with target shooting. An average priced medium power scope (I am calling all scopes x20 and below a medium power) will not show you the .22 holes @ 100, and if you want to see those holes you will need to drag an extra spotting scope with you. So for 100 meters you are adding up the costs, either 1+1 pieces equipment - or you buy a higher power scope. At least x32 can show you the holes on paper at 80, for 100 distance you will really need a better quality glass.
Next is hunting/pesting. Over 50 to 70 you will still just benefit from a higher power scope, for the games you intent to shoot at. For a raccoon size or bigger the x20 may work.
Click to expand...
I can see the holes fairly well with my binoculars, and can start to make them out at 10x in good light with the UTG Compact. For hunting, I really do need that 4x lower range which eliminates most scopes above 16x max.
 
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JungleShooter said:
Alex, 😊
welcome to AGN! This is a great community to learn, to share, to help, and have fun.


🔸Your budget of $500 is a wonderful amount to get something much much better than the UTG Leaper you're leaping with until now! 👍🏼


🔸Top End Magnification:
Considering your range of up to 100y, to go to at least 16x top end magnification is a wise choice. And you might consider 18x or 20x or as much as 24x (especially if your eyes have a manufacturing date a little father back than say the 80's).


🔸 Bottom End Magnification:
However, as you're squirrel hunting, you'll be needing a wide field of view (FoV) at the bottom end. Your Leaper 3-12x probably has around 30-35ft (@100y), so that's something to pay attention to.
The Helix 4-16x44 FFP you mentioned has only 26ft, that's pretty narrow for my feel.
However, there are other 4-16x that have much wider FoV. You also can choose a 3-18x that will have a wider FoV.
● The brand-new Arken EPL4 — 6 weeks lead time — has 30ft, has Japanese glass with super clarity, and is just an amazing deal. Far below your $500 limit. Here:

EPL4 4-16x44 FFP MOA VHR Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 30mm Tube

www.arkenopticsusa.com www.arkenopticsusa.com



🔸 Scopecams
If you use the search function you'll get some good results for the scopecams you're looking at. I can also recommend the Tactacam as another option.
What is the purpose of scopecaming for you? This will determine what the best camera and scope is....
Do tell! 👍🏼



🔸I will attach below a Scope Specs Table where the specs of different scopes are compared.
Most are right inside your budget.
Separated by FFP and SFP (a difference I find very important if you want to use holdover instead of turret dialing).
With price and warranty information.
Weight, lenght.
Type of reticle.
etc. etc.



🔸 One question: What might be the reason you are using 12 inches holdover — and not dialing the elevation turret?
For your budget you would be able to get scopes that are quite reliable/ repeatable to dial the turrets. Technology and quality has improved greatly over the past years.

To answer your question directly about holding over 12 inches and seeing the holdover in the reticle at max. magnification:
(a) Many FFP scopes in the Scope Specs Table have links to where you can see the reticle at minimum and maximum magnification, and you will be able to see if there are enough holdover hashlines.

(b) 12 inches at 100y are roughly 2.5mil, any FFP scope in these magnification ranges will give you that.
12" at 50y are 5.5 mil, and most will give you that, or almost.
For closer ranges with that same holdover, you'll have to check the reticle images (cf. links).



Cheers, 😊

Matthias


❌ Attachment:
Scope Specs Table 4-16x / 3-18x / 4-20x

View attachment 309064
Click to expand...
I contacted Arken about the EPL4 reticle thickness. This is what they said:

Arken EPL4
"The line thickness is 0.03 MIL [0.1 moa] There is actually a picture towards the end of the slide shows that has a pretty thorough breakdown of the reticle if you want to see more of it. I would say that on the lower ends of the magnification they are a little hard to see, but useable if your eyes are in decent shape. I know for my 74 year old father he needs to be around 12-15x to be able to really use the reticle, but I can get away with 6-8x with my 23 year old eyes."
- This is probably a deal breaker for the Arken.

Element Optics Helix, for comparison, is a line thickness of .15 MOA and .1 MOA scale bars. They claim this is ideal for that 4-6x magnification zone.
+ Reticle works for me
- FOV IS SMALL (26 - 6.5 ft)
+ Lightweight, good for hunting
- Chinese glass (?)

Which brings me back to the:
Airmax SF WA 4x16 50
+ Reticle is good for me, it is SFP
+ FOV is good (30.7 - 7.7 ft)
- Heavy
- NOT IN MOA? (Unless I am missing something. I am partial to MOA over Mil)
- Chinese glass (?)
- The price just went up over $500 on most sites

Thoughts?
 
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Alex,

Congrats for digging deep and getting info I didn't have.

🔸️Yes, if you look over the reticle line widths in the Scope Specs Table, the lines of the Arken are on the thin end. Bummer — on all other counts it must be an amazing scope.
The evaluation of the Arken rep will give you an idea of what line thickness you might be looking for.

However, as described in the intro to the Specs Table, the main thing for an FFP reticle for low magnification are the thick outside posts of the reticle....


🔸️Here are a few others you could look at:
Hawke: Frontier SF 4-20x44 SFP MIL (No. 18130)
(With Hawke it's safest to use the product number as their models are often so similar.)

Hawke: Sidewinder 30 SF 4-16x50 SFP MIL (No. 17250)

Sightron: S-TAC: 4-20x50 SFP MOA
(the FFP is more expensive)

Aztec Emerald 3-18x50 SFP MOA

Sightron: S-TAC: 3-16x42 SFP MOA


If you decide for a Hawke, remind me to check for the vendor name I found has the largest discounts.

Got to run. 👍🏼

Matthias
 
Upvote 0
JungleShooter said:
Alex,

Congrats for digging deep and getting info I didn't have.

🔸️Yes, if you look over the reticle line widths in the Scope Specs Table, the lines of the Arken are on the thin end. Bummer — on all other counts it must be an amazing scope.
The evaluation of the Arken rep will give you an idea of what line thickness you might be looking for.

However, as described in the intro to the Specs Table, the main thing for an FFP reticle for low magnification are the thick outside posts of the reticle....


🔸️Here are a few others you could look at:
Hawke: Frontier SF 4-20x44 SFP MIL (No. 18130)
(With Hawke it's safest to use the product number as their models are often so similar.)

Hawke: Sidewinder 30 SF 4-16x50 SFP MIL (No. 17250)

Sightron: S-TAC: 4-20x50 SFP MOA
(the FFP is more expensive)

Aztec Emerald 3-18x50 SFP MOA

Sightron: S-TAC: 3-16x42 SFP MOA


If you decide for a Hawke, remind me to check for the vendor name I found has the largest discounts.

Got to run. 👍🏼

Matthias
Click to expand...
Thanks Matthias!

The Hawke Frontier and Sidewinder are both over budget unfortunately. I currently have the Airmax marked at $479, unless you see cheaper. The black friday/cyber monday deals don't apply to it where I've seen it.

I'm leaning heavily towards getting the Hawke, and I might consider the FFP if it dips below $500 anywhere and has thick enough reticles.
 
Upvote 0
JungleShooter said:
Alex,

Congrats for digging deep and getting info I didn't have.

🔸️Yes, if you look over the reticle line widths in the Scope Specs Table, the lines of the Arken are on the thin end. Bummer — on all other counts it must be an amazing scope.
The evaluation of the Arken rep will give you an idea of what line thickness you might be looking for.

However, as described in the intro to the Specs Table, the main thing for an FFP reticle for low magnification are the thick outside posts of the reticle....


🔸️Here are a few others you could look at:
Hawke: Frontier SF 4-20x44 SFP MIL (No. 18130)
(With Hawke it's safest to use the product number as their models are often so similar.)

Hawke: Sidewinder 30 SF 4-16x50 SFP MIL (No. 17250)

Sightron: S-TAC: 4-20x50 SFP MOA
(the FFP is more expensive)

Aztec Emerald 3-18x50 SFP MOA

Sightron: S-TAC: 3-16x42 SFP MOA


If you decide for a Hawke, remind me to check for the vendor name I found has the largest discounts.

Got to run. 👍🏼

Matthias
Click to expand...
I found the Hawke Airmax SF WA 4-16x50 on optics-trade.eu for $399 (and then ~$35 shipping). Cyber monday deal knocks another 5% off for the next 4 hours. https://www.optics-trade.eu/us/hawke-airmax-30-wa-sf-4-16x50.html

Only thing is, I can't find a model number and I can't for the life of me navigate back to this scope through the website. I'm not sure how I found it in the first place but I had the tab open. Is this a reputable place and am I looking at the right scope? For $80 I want to be sure!
 
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OK, the webpage you linked shows the part no. as:
SKU13311

It has capped turrets, that's why this particular scope has not made it onto my Scope Specs Tables. 😉



Here is another seller in the UK, still cheaper:
www.opticswarehouse.co.uk

Hawke Airmax 30 WA SF 4-16x50 SFP 0.1MRAD AMX IR Rifle Scope

Airmax scopes feature our H2 optics in a variety of configurations designed to suit airgun characteristics. Nitrogen purged. Shockproof. Waterproof. Fog proof. All caliber rated. Hawke No-Fault Lifetime Warranty.
www.opticswarehouse.co.uk www.opticswarehouse.co.uk

I just(!) ordered from them. 5 days shipping, if I understand correctly.
www.opticswarehouse.co.uk

Hawke Airmax 30 WA SF 4-16x50 SFP 0.1MRAD AMX IR Rifle Scope

Airmax scopes feature our H2 optics in a variety of configurations designed to suit airgun characteristics. Nitrogen purged. Shockproof. Waterproof. Fog proof. All caliber rated. Hawke No-Fault Lifetime Warranty.
www.opticswarehouse.co.uk www.opticswarehouse.co.uk



Cheers,

Matthias
 
Upvote 0
You are getting a nice scope — several steps up from your UTG. Congrats! 👍🏼

•It's light.
•It's bright (important for slo-mo scopecaming!) with the good glass and 50mm objective.
•Register it(!), and you get a lifetime warranty (with your purchase receipt).
•It has likely a very clear image for seeing well enough for longer ranges.
•It comes with a boatload of accessories.

Happy shooting! 😊

Matthias
 
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