Basic (Delta / Alpha Wolf) Tuning Concepts...

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Shooting Targets

Shooting Targets

Member
Jan 7, 2017
963
299
Nebraska, United States
A simple video for guys that are new to the delta wolf / Alpha wolf programming. It was confusing to me at first well I think I am closer with kind of step by step process of tuning this beast. So I know this is not 100% accurate but to put it in a rough box to get some basic foundations to a tune without going crazy.


 
  • Like
Reactions: NRPy, cavedweller, EDventure and 2 others
Good video.... And good basic explanation. I'm just not so sure why owners shy away from the Factory Mode...? Yes, when the gun first came out it didn't work that great, but for the past year its been awesome. It could be the name since "Advanced" makes "Factory" look like the beginner settings? In actuallity, its anything but...
I also do steps 1 and 2, but have drank the "Factory Mode" Kool aide. So I start at approx 165 bar (once I get the ammo and most accurate speed), and then lower the reg pressure in 10 bar steps until the gun can no longer attain and maintain my desired speed. Then I come up 5 bar and try again, and if the gun shoots my speed I'm done.
What this does is gives me the lowest reg pressure that will maintain my "most accurate" speed, and gives me a great ES and SD. The way the factory mode works is that it measures the speed of every shot. When two shots in a row are 4 FPS greater or less than (+/-) the set speed, it adjusts the settings internally to get the gun back to desired speed.
At EBR on day 1, I shot about 150 (or more) shots in the day's events with the Delta Wolf on Factory Mode (reg at 135 bar). I had it set to 875 fps with .30 JSB 50.1 pellets (sorted) and for the entire day, ALL SHOTS WERE WITHIN 874 to 880 FPS. Thats a 6 FPS ES for well over 150 shots!!! I'm not sure that the Advanced mode would have performed that well, since outside temperature varies quite a bit from early morning to late afternoon.
The way I look at the Delta/Alpha Wolf is, if you want to use Advanced Mode, just buy a Red Wolf instead and install a HeliBoard, its pretty much the same thing....
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: shambozzie, Airgunner614, Maion and 5 others
Upvote 0
Well explained, Jaydog...
AoA has a tuning vid... fyi. It has a couple of small errors but the process is fairly well explained there.
There are those that have put forth that more voltage and lower dwell gives a quicker hammer action than more dwell and less voltage. This is not an electronically controlled valve... it's a hammer propulsion system for a mechanical valve. The total energy applied to the solenoid is what matters... either way of getting there should be identical in result. In otherwords, the two options are interchangeable except that it is recommended not to operate at max voltage for longevity of the electronic components.
Your description gives a simple concept to get people started. 👍👊
I want to add that the editing feature is only for the name. You can edit a Set by selecting "New Set", entering the new parameters, then saving as the name of the set you wish to edit. You are saving "over" the pre-existing set. Note: you will have to "Recall" the edited set to make it active.
Rock on...
Bob
 
  • Like
Reactions: EDventure, Shooting Targets and Centercut
Upvote 0
Arzover, centercut well said and thanks for not being overly critical of the video just trying to get basic information out to new guys. I have seen a few guys sell their rifles because they just cant seem to get it to work for them.

Centercut, if you shot that many shots with that spread/extreme spread that is good enough for me probably wont touch the custom tune from here on out.
That is exceptionally consistent and good enough.



A HUGE BENEFIT SHOOTERS MIGHT BE MISSING:

Centercut you mentioned this, there are also an added benefits people might be missing especially for hunting by not using FACTORY AVS. Your zero changing or your settings change while the gun is stored. I know I have had other rifles where they were working spot on one day and then I take it out in a colder day and BAM shooting 20 FPS different. This could be humidity, cold weather -5 below vs 70 degrees, altitude you name it but the longer the rifle gets stored without a checkup the more it seems to get off the mark. With Factory Settings it will just self adjust for you so BAM right back in action. The more I think about the Factory setting the more I am in favor of just let it do what it does and forget about the rest.

Thanks again Guys !
 
  • Like
Reactions: EDventure and Stone02
Upvote 0
The way I look at the Delta/Alpha Wolf is, if you want to use Advanced Mode, just buy a Red Wolf instead and install a HeliBoard, its pretty much the same thing.......

I thought of that a few years ago. But the minute you do that you loose any factory warranty you had on the rifle. To some, who have had to use the factory warranty, it's not a good choice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stone02
Upvote 0
There are some Alpha Wolf's, from talking to other Alpha owners I know, that when in factory mode and let's say set for 30 minutes, when fired will be 100fps low and take 5 shots or more to get back or set fps. Also was told from a factory tech. that in advanced mode that doesn't happen because in advanced mode the pellet fps Isn't changed from info from the chrono, if I heard and understood correctly, like factory mode. Like WTF...who's on first and what's on second and why's on third.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hornclayton
Upvote 0
Richieg said:
There are some Alpha Wolf's, from talking to other Alpha owners I know, that when in factory mode and let's say set for 30 minutes, when fired will be 100fps low and take 5 shots or more to get back or set fps. Also was told from a factory tech. that in advanced mode that doesn't happen because in advanced mode the pellet fps Isn't changed from info from the chrono, if I heard and understood correctly, like factory mode. Like WTF...who's on first and what's on second and why's on third.
Click to expand...
That’s all from anecdotal words from the first year. It no longer does that. That’s one of the reasons you set it to the lowest reg pressure that it’ll maintain your speed. If I set my gun away for a couple weeks that first shot will be in the low 870s. Easy day.
PS., when you turn the gun off or it times out it saves the settings it was at. When it turns back on it uses those exact same dwell and voltage setting from prior.
The last flash to the bios is amazing!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stone02
Upvote 0
Richieg said:
The way I look at the Delta/Alpha Wolf is, if you want to use Advanced Mode, just buy a Red Wolf instead and install a HeliBoard, its pretty much the same thing.......

I thought of that a few years ago. But the minute you do that you loose any factory warranty you had on the rifle. To some, who have had to use the factory warranty, it's not a good choice.
Click to expand...
I assume you’re correct there but I don’t know that for certain. If you were that worried then I wouldn’t do it. The factory board three settings are just as accurate as the HeliBoard except you only get 3 speeds not 12 and you can’t adjust without a tuner. With the HeliBoard you do it on the gun with trigger presses.
 
Upvote 0
jaydog said:
Arzover, centercut well said and thanks for not being overly critical of the video just trying to get basic information out to new guys. I have seen a few guys sell their rifles because they just cant seem to get it to work for them.

Centercut, if you shot that many shots with that spread/extreme spread that is good enough for me probably wont touch the custom tune from here on out.
That is exceptionally consistent and good enough.



A HUGE BENEFIT SHOOTERS MIGHT BE MISSING:

Centercut you mentioned this, there are also an added benefits people might be missing especially for hunting by not using FACTORY AVS. Your zero changing or your settings change while the gun is stored. I know I have had other rifles where they were working spot on one day and then I take it out in a colder day and BAM shooting 20 FPS different. This could be humidity, cold weather -5 below vs 70 degrees, altitude you name it but the longer the rifle gets stored without a checkup the more it seems to get off the mark. With Factory Settings it will just self adjust for you so BAM right back in action. The more I think about the Factory setting the more I am in favor of just let it do what it does and forget about the rest.

Thanks again Guys !
Click to expand...
Thanks Jay, it’s not just hunting. At RMAC if I go to shoot PRS in the AM sometimes it’s very cold the first hour or two. So most guns will shoot slow, maybe 20 fps or more. Then as it warms up the gun will pick up speed to its usual set at 65 to 80 degree. With Factory Mode in the Delta Wolf the speed will remain constant. And this type of thing is the MAJOR BENEFIT to the Delta/Alpha, yet owners are stuck on using the “Red Wolf” mode and not taking advantage of the guns revolutionary technology.
PS., as @Arzrover said above, hammer energy is hammer energy. Voltage and/or Dwell can be shifted but it boils down to the actual energy transferred from the hammer to the valve. Advanced or Factory, doesn’t matter…
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stone02 and Shooting Targets
Upvote 0
Arzrover said:
Well explained, Jaydog...
AoA has a tuning vid... fyi. It has a couple of small errors but the process is fairly well explained there.
There are those that have put forth that more voltage and lower dwell gives a quicker hammer action than more dwell and less voltage. This is not an electronically controlled valve... it's a hammer propulsion system for a mechanical valve. The total energy applied to the solenoid is what matters... either way of getting there should be identical in result. In otherwords, the two options are interchangeable except that it is recommended not to operate at max voltage for longevity of the electronic components.
Your description gives a simple concept to get people started. 👍👊
I want to add that the editing feature is only for the name. You can edit a Set by selecting "New Set", entering the new parameters, then saving as the name of the set you wish to edit. You are saving "over" the pre-existing set. Note: you will have to "Recall" the edited set to make it active.
Rock on...
Bob
Click to expand...
BOB, Centercut, maybe you could clear this up. So I would think that the dwell is the time in (Us) micro Seconds that the valve is kept open or at least the solenoid is engaged ??

So maybe I was wrong in my analogy but if you up the voltage the solenoid hits the mechanical valve harder and the DWELL Time opens up the valve a Longer time ? Is this not correct I am curious ? Theoretically, if we look at the dwell time in Us micro seconds, it takes a projectile 2500 us micro seconds to clear the barrel when it is traveling at 800 FPS. 2 foot barrel 24inchs and 800fps. 2/800 = .0025 or 2500 us Micro Seconds to leave the barrel right ? So in theory if we set a dwell time is set to say 2300 micro seconds or less the air will be done pushing the pellet out the barrel and we do not have any extra turbulence ?

Probably wrong but this is what I thought was happening in theory anyway ?
 
Upvote 0
Centercut said:
Thanks Jay, it’s not just hunting. At RMAC if I go to shoot PRS in the AM sometimes it’s very cold the first hour or two. So most guns will shoot slow, maybe 20 fps or more. Then as it warms up the gun will pick up speed to its usual set at 65 to 80 degree. With Factory Mode in the Delta Wolf the speed will remain constant. And this type of thing is the MAJOR BENEFIT to the Delta/Alpha, yet owners are stuck on using the “Red Wolf” mode and not taking advantage of the guns revolutionary technology.
PS., as @Arzrover said above, hammer energy is hammer energy. Voltage and/or Dwell can be shifted but it boils down to the actual energy transferred from the hammer to the valve. Advanced or Factory, doesn’t matter…
Click to expand...
Yep I never shot any contests but I could totally see that and it would be huge advantage as the time goes by it self adjusting to the heat increase LOL.
 
Upvote 0
Jaydog... a pulse of electricity is sent from the control board to the solenoid. The pulse has a magnitude and duration. That's the voltage and dwell. The combination of the two gives a total amount of energy that is applied to the solenoid winding. The solenoid draws the steel hammer into itself where the valve stem is waiting to be struck. The more energy applied to the solenoid, the faster the hammer moves which gives more kinetic energy to knock the valve open longer. So either more voltage for a given time or more time for a given voltage would result in more kinetic energy for the hammer.

Not trying to confuse anyone here, just trying clarify that it's NOT an electronically controlled valve and that the voltage OR dwell can be adjusted somewhat interchangeably. I prefer to keep things more toward the middles as much as possible unless you're near the low or high end of the energy it's capable of. Even if you don't do that, it's ok... just don't run too close to max voltage for any long period.

Bob
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stone02 and Centercut
Upvote 0
As a further thought on the turbulence, if you lower the reg pressure , it typically takes a longer valve open duration but less energy to open the valve for any particular velocity. There will therefore be a tradeoff between reg pressure and valve dwell in terms of how and how much air is delivered to the projectile. THIS is the complicated part of tuning. The valve on a DW is NOT a standard poppet arrangement but stills responds somewhat to higher reg pressure giving higher efficiency. The downside is that stiction may cause the first shot to be low velocity with higher reg pressures. Soooo.... the recommended setup for hunting or where first shot velocity is important is a reg pressure barely higher than what will generate the velocity desired.
The Factory suggested reg pressure is always MUCH higher than necessary in order to supply the HUGE RANGE of energies this rifle is capable of. It is NOT the BEST for any given energy.

Hope this helps some . ..
Bob
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Centercut and Stone02
Upvote 0
Arzrover said:
As a further thought on the turbulence, if you lower the reg pressure , it typically takes a longer valve open duration but less energy to open the valve for any particular velocity. There will therefore be a tradeoff between reg and valve dwell in terms of how and how much air is delivered to the projectile. THIS is the complicated part of tuning. The valve on a DW is NOT a standard poppet arrangement but stills responds somewhat to higher reg pressure giving higher efficiency. The downside is that stiction may cause the first shot to be low velocity with higher reg pressures. Soooo.... the recommended setup for hunting or where first shot velocity is important is a reg pressure barely higher than what will generate the velocity desired.
The Factory suggested reg pressure is always MUCH higher than necessary in order to supply the HUGE RANGE of energies this rifle is capable of. It is NOT the BEST for any given energy.

Hope this helps some . ..
Bob
Click to expand...
Yes, makes sense thanks for clearing that up.....
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Heyucombs said:
Still a on going issue. AOA and Daystate know it also. Even with the new valves. Some are ok. Some are not so bad, Some terrible at first shot drop off while sitting idle or shutting down. In advanced and factory settings.
Click to expand...
My Alpha Wolf Safari behaves much better in Advanced mode. I don't have a huge drop in speed when stored. 10-15 fps at the most, and then it's right back after the first shot. That 10-15 fps difference causes no change in my zero when tested, so I'm not concerned.

Reading back through this thread, I want to revisit Factory mode using the method @Centercut mentioned. If that method works for me and I get as good of a standard deviation as I do in advanced mode, it will make me a much happier Alpha Wolf owner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Heyucombs
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu