I had a rws 54 and it could actually hit spinners at 96 yards but I'm not sure I could group like a pcp. I own a tx 200 plus a hw97 and I feel I probably could group both of them at 60 yards ...I usually use them for 35-50 yds .
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Springer vs PCP
- Thread starter WNYBill
- Start date
Far as I know the Diana 54 is the only recoilless rifle still in production that will reach the distances you want to shoot. They quit making the 56T/H a few years back. The 54/56 platform is NOT harder to shoot accurately. Exact opposite. If I do everything right my HW97K long barrel will group with the 56. The 56 is more forgiving because it doesn’t care how it’s held or rested. What’s harder with the 54/56 is getting it set up to suit you. Not just stock screw torque to worry about but your sled tension too. Making the sled as smooth as possible as you can see in Steve’s work. Etc. Rewarding as all get out when you get it right.
I assume most peeps shooting PCP at 100 yards are shooting slugs. That’s a difference maker. No idea how slugs would work in a 54.
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I'm the same way. I love shooting larger spinners and beer cans at 100 with all my springers. I typically shoot them for groups between 30 and 50 yards. I keep my lower power HW30s to 30 yards or less for groups.
I think what handicaps springers for long ranges is their lack of efficiency with heavy high BC pellets and slugs. Larger calibers and high BC pellets require a considerable amount of power to drive long distances. The higher the output the more recoil issues you have to tame with springers.
PCPs have more then enough power and nearly zero recoil. They're just easier to shoot accurately.
For now my springers are powerful and accurate enough to entertain me. I got powder burners if I want to shoot groups (or kill something) at a good distance.
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D
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D54, LGU, TX200, HW97K, HW77 ... only one I missed out on is the LGU because they are rare to find and sell fast. D54, its a beast and I never figured out a way to consistently pull that side lever and always a battle. The D54 may be the one as the recoilless system might be a benefit out to 100 yards. I tend to stay in about 53 yards as thats my backyard for pesting and plinking. Might consider .177 over .22 because of the tragectory. The rest in my list are a treat. Probably would get a good tune done on any of them. The TX200 Hunter Carbine has a short cocking handle and takes some effort. Shorter barreled versions seem to be more accurate for me. IMHO, the Diana 54 in .177 might be what you are after in the end. But the others just might surprise you too. I'm tempted to go back over to PCP and try again ...
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In the end, this is it when comparing springer vs PCP. A D54 is 23’ish FPE I think in .22. My Walther Maximathor .22 makes 44+ FPE depending on pellet and also shoots slugs well. Out past 50 yards that’s going to make a big difference. I prefer springers to PCP by a long way. Staying inside 50 yards for target shooting suits me just fine most times.Upvote 0
If we are talking accuracy inside a certain range , inside say 25yards, my springers do equally as well as my Maruaders.
It’s nice to have both and shoot both ( springers and pcp)
And if I may suggest it’s more impressive with springer …
I would think an asp20 by Sig would be the springer I’d look for. I’ve seen some amazing shooting from those. ( it may be a gas ram I didn’t research it )
It’s nice to have both and shoot both ( springers and pcp)
And if I may suggest it’s more impressive with springer …
I would think an asp20 by Sig would be the springer I’d look for. I’ve seen some amazing shooting from those. ( it may be a gas ram I didn’t research it )
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Heck inside of 25 yards my Hw30s will challenge any gun. The OP was asking specifically about 50 yards so I kept it to that. Distance changes things exponentially.
The ASP20 is a great gun. I've first hand seen multiple great 50 yard groups from them. Unfortunately they are discontinued and there's little aftermarket support for them.
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Bill, trying to get a springer to shoot like a PCP is the same as expecting an apple to taste like an orange. The world is full of differences, enjoy them while you can!
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In my experience at 50 yards and beyond, at least in springers, a big difference in the .22 and .177. The .22 rules. At 25 yards the TX177 most days shoots some 5 shoot groups that stay inside the 1/4 hole in a notebook hole reinforcement ring. The 54 in .22 will stay inside the complete ring that is .5. Go to 50 and it all changes and I have not even bothered with the .177 TX at 100. If you want to learn a new skill and need nothing but a rifle and tin of pellets plus the inclination to handle the learning curve a top end Springer will suit. If you want to basically shoot a .22 rim fire with little learning needed just a different and more cumbersome power source you want a PCP.
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I'm probably not the guy you want to talk to, I have both feet stuck in the Springers camp, my adult son on the other hand is heavily invested in PCP's.
We often shoot together on our 40 yd. backyard range and at my club 100 yd. range, his PCP rifles are impressive to say the least
their accuracy and long range performance are amazing, however, I am completely satisfied with my break barrel air rifles which number over a dozen give or take a couple, some are budget priced gas piston rifles about half of them are in the mid price
range ($500.00 ~ $700.00).
My higher end air rifles are in .177, .20, and .22 calibers and they do a very good job of keeping up with my son's PCP guns up to 50~60 yds. with the PCP's getting the edge at 60~100 yds, in total I have about $4000.00 invested in my air guns, my son has that much and more just in his last rifle purchase, his air tanks and one compressor.
So when you talk of falling into a PCP rabbit hole, I know full well of what you speak.
But, in defense of air gun shooters everywhere, if you're enjoying yourself and you can afford your hobby choice, and you aren't taking away from your family, go for it, we only come this way once (that we know of).
We often shoot together on our 40 yd. backyard range and at my club 100 yd. range, his PCP rifles are impressive to say the least
their accuracy and long range performance are amazing, however, I am completely satisfied with my break barrel air rifles which number over a dozen give or take a couple, some are budget priced gas piston rifles about half of them are in the mid price
range ($500.00 ~ $700.00).
My higher end air rifles are in .177, .20, and .22 calibers and they do a very good job of keeping up with my son's PCP guns up to 50~60 yds. with the PCP's getting the edge at 60~100 yds, in total I have about $4000.00 invested in my air guns, my son has that much and more just in his last rifle purchase, his air tanks and one compressor.
So when you talk of falling into a PCP rabbit hole, I know full well of what you speak.
But, in defense of air gun shooters everywhere, if you're enjoying yourself and you can afford your hobby choice, and you aren't taking away from your family, go for it, we only come this way once (that we know of).
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No springer is going to match a PCP out to 75 yards
I limited my shooting passed 50 yds to my AA S 510
Haven said that I shoot my WH 97k a lot more because it is more fun anyone can shoot a pcp good
I limited my shooting passed 50 yds to my AA S 510
Haven said that I shoot my WH 97k a lot more because it is more fun anyone can shoot a pcp good
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I personally shoot both depending on my mood. If I feel lazy, I will simply lug my springer and a tin of pellets down to the range, but if I'm yearning for some precision shooting past 35 yards, the PCP will be called to action. My PCP will outdo my Springer any day past 30 yards in terms of 5 shot group sizes. Then there are certain days I don't wanna shoot Springer or PCP; opting to go with CO2 or pumper action.
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Hello.
Maintenance??
FWIW, my story: I was a very active airgunner about 15-20 years ago. Fan of spring piston airguns like HW, Diana Feinwerkbau, but also of PCPs (fan of Fx). Then I slowed down my AG activity to almost zero for several years... Right now I have just returned. And I find about 8/10 of my PCPs are not operational (leak problems), but my springguns, all work OK.
As for accuracy @ longer ranges??? Competition??
I think a springgun is no match for a good PCP at longer ranges, say 50 yards or more. However, if you’re not looking specifically at competitions, a springgun can give you a lot of joy and teach you, when shooting long range.
Maintenance??
FWIW, my story: I was a very active airgunner about 15-20 years ago. Fan of spring piston airguns like HW, Diana Feinwerkbau, but also of PCPs (fan of Fx). Then I slowed down my AG activity to almost zero for several years... Right now I have just returned. And I find about 8/10 of my PCPs are not operational (leak problems), but my springguns, all work OK.
As for accuracy @ longer ranges??? Competition??
I think a springgun is no match for a good PCP at longer ranges, say 50 yards or more. However, if you’re not looking specifically at competitions, a springgun can give you a lot of joy and teach you, when shooting long range.
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Sometimes I wonder about some posts, what do I wonder, I suppose if UFO'S were seen at midnight.
If you like PCP simply go purchase a cheap throw away compressor and enjoy.
As for accuracy, I have several springers the HW97 for example that will out to 50 yards equal any top end PCP. However at 75 yards the PCP will rule the day.
So out to 50 yards it is possible, provided you are willing to put in the time to practice, develop trigger control and the patience to take each shot slow and deliberate. Learning to shoot a springer is a lifelong process.
Yes Vortex scopes are all rated for a springer and they will happily replace it, if it ever does break. I have a Vortex on a Gamo .22 Magnum and it has well over 10K shots and still going strong.
As for maintenance there really is not much on a springer. Check the stock screws once in awhile, take a que tip and put some moly grease on the locking mechanism once in awhile and a drop of silicone oil on the hinge and pin and cocking parts, perhaps a couple drops on the spring and that is all you need. Check the breech seal once in awhile, however they last for a long time.
Now for less money, Gamo is coming on strong. They have changed their ways. I have a new Fusion .22 gen 3i that is punching one half inch groups at 35 yards with a very economical pellet the H and N FTT 14,66 5.54 head size at 725 fps for 17 plus FPE. I am impressed for sure. I have not grouped it at 50 yet however I have at 2.5 mildots shot pellet tins and not missed. However this is not a rifle for a beginner, it is highly demanding on hold and trigger and breath control.
So out to 50 yards, it is possible, beyond that NO the decent PCP will rule the day.
Cheers
Kit
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Airgun Detective just recently did a review on that rifle. Go find it and watch it.
Memorial Day Sale at Gamo for this one, $289 plus code free shipping.
I have a Gen Two and with the Air Arms 16 grain yellow label pellets shoots one inch at 50. The only difference is the magazine, although I never had any trouble with the original. Some did who tried to use certain pellets. It will take some practice, however once you get used to the trigger it does very well.
Kit
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Can you still put the gold trigger on that model ? .............I have 2 sitting in my Gamo Hunter sport and Titan.
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You would have to buy used but a Whiscome will do it.
Seems you own the F&T in .22. I believe they still benefit for proper tuning (not adjustment, tuning-parts/other ?
50 to 70 yards a .177 at 12fpe is all you need for target. That and truly tuned at least you will get a ton of shoots.
John
Seems you own the F&T in .22. I believe they still benefit for proper tuning (not adjustment, tuning-parts/other ?
50 to 70 yards a .177 at 12fpe is all you need for target. That and truly tuned at least you will get a ton of shoots.
John
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