.04 MOA All Day Long If I Do My Part.

[elh0102]

I keep wondering when the other “major” manufacturers are going to start posting amazing shot groups. It must be loathing and fear that stops them.

I think the answer is found in your question. The posting of "amazing" groups or scores would likely result in disappointment and complaints from the average buyer. Such results, by their nature are exceptional, produced by an atypical combination of shooter skill, conditions, random luck, etc. Most of the major makers are small private companies that are not operated by top competitive shooters, and they probably do not have the people or time to dedicate to such an endeavor. If they build competitive products, these amazing results will be generated by their customers, and we will become aware of it, as I believe is the case. It may be analogous to the major car makers abandoning factory teams, finding themselves better served by getting the cars in the hands of professional race teams.

 

[beerthief]

Actually, I think that idea would be very well received here on AGN. Until you mentioned this Lou, I never really gave much thought about it. I always assumed that the buyers and not the manufacturers, would post all the groups. I like the idea that Mike posts these, so I would agree that more should do the same.

It really would be good if Daystate, FX, etc., would take the time to show/post some groups or score cards at various distances with their products.

People want to see what they’re buying and I would think this would help manufacturers sell more air rifles also.

Unfortunately, don’t think it will materialize, but I love the idea.

Tom

cost factor , are you willing to pay that much extra for the work involved ? 3K ? 4K ?

 

[thomasair]

Here's what this gun does at 50y normally. These are 25 shot groups. Both very similar at 3.5 rings high. The dime is about 5.5 rings....lots of room under the dime. Then the single group is an exceptional 25 shot closer to 3 rings tall.

Mike

 

[tommyb]

cost factor , are you willing to pay that much extra for the work involved ? 3K ? 4K ?

Definitely not. I would never pay an ‘excessive’ amount for a Manufacturer to test shoot their guns and post some data on AGN. Mike does it because he tries to help the community and is part of the community.

I just thought (along with Lou here), that it would be well received but I understand Ed’s rationale and your cost point also.

One can always hope or dream.

 

[beerthief]

Definitely not. I would never pay an ‘excessive’ amount for a Manufacturer to test shoot their guns and post some data on AGN. Mike does it because he tries to help the community and is part of the community.

I just thought (along with Lou here), that it would be well received but I understand Ed’s rationale and your cost point also.

One can always hope or dream.

Sone day .....some day , i will have a

 

[Loufish]

"beerthief said:
cost factor , are you willing to pay that much extra for the work involved ? 3K ? 4K ?"

Many have bought high end rifles and pumped a whole bunch of "new" money into them. New chassis', lots of barrels, tensioned barrels, triggers, moderators, then sent off to specialty tuners (sometimes often)... Look at the top EBR type shooters - most of those rifles are well massaged and everyone knows it. They are are seeking improvements with a lot of add-on $ goodies.

 

[manabeknives]

The consistency of the both the rifle and shooter like you demonstrate is so harmonious and those targets ... just want to truely wrap my mind around what i see. So simple looking, but knowing what is involved..just mind exploding! Inspiring ! Fantastic thread!
Michael

 

[thomasair]

Here is a 75 shot group in contrast to a 10 shot at 50y. The 75 shot group is about .600" outside to outside. It didn't change much after about 30 shots. Once the hole gets big enough, you lose the ability to see exactly where the slug is going. It's typical to see small poi shifts as you shoot and large groups don't really let you roll with the changes since you can't see them until they take a little bite out of the hole in the paper.

Mike

 

[beerthief]

I print my own targets (30 yard challenge ) on light card stock . I can fit 4 sheets on my target stand , so i shoot one shot /one bull . Any distance up to 49 yards (farthest safe shot here) I will have to try 75 on one bull .

 

[steve123]

Here is a 75 shot group in contrast to a 10 shot at 50y. The 75 shot group is about .600" outside to outside. It didn't change much after about 30 shots. Once the hole gets big enough, you lose the ability to see exactly where the slug is going. It's typical to see small poi shifts as you shoot and large groups don't really let you roll with the changes since you can't see them until they take a little bite out of the hole in the paper.

Mike View attachment 417944View attachment 417945

What's funny is 99.99% of us crave this kind of consistency whereas your "Poi shifts" are so tiny we wouldn't even realize there was one. As well these groups are so amazingly centered in the bull.

You've really taken these guns to the extreme Mike!

Merry Christmas BTW.

 

[thomasair]

Here's 3 successive N50 cards after lunch today. This is exactly what Ive been working toward.

750 55x

Mike

 

[igolfat8]

That’s awesome Mike! Pellets @50Y?

 

[thomasair]

That’s awesome Mike! Pellets @50Y?

Thanks....no. Slugs

 

[Ricochet]

Here's 3 successive N50 cards after lunch today. This is exactly what Ive been working toward.

750 55x

Mike

View attachment 418064View attachment 418063View attachment 418065

Very nice !!

 

[Ricochet]

And for those wondering why 75 shot group… 75 shots = 1 match…The 25 shot group =25 x’s outstanding consistency Mike.. This is a testament to your relentless pursuit of perfection.

 

[thomasair]

A few 25 shot groups at 50y. 3 great ones, but even the rest are good. Trying different tuner settings...so poi moves around.

Mike

 

[thomasair]

Ya ya...couple more 25 shot groups.

 

[Troy Bakel]

Now that I have finished tuning my Piatt/Thomas for the selected pellet, I have shot 12 cards with all record shots cutting the 10 ring indoors at 20 yards.

I have learned that 4 factors affect the POI:

1. Rest to rifle torque.
2. Regulator reset time.
3. How far the pellet is inserted in the chamber.
4. Sighter shot dispersion determines POA and therefore POI.

From reading Mike's posts, disagreeing with him, and then finally learning from him, and then applying what I learned, my scores improved and I became a consistent shooter. The most important lesson learned from Mike is that my sighter groups show me dispersion and to set my POA based on that dispersion.

The only time my POA is the center of the 10 ring is when I shoot my sighters and I always shoot 5 rounds per sighter.

 

[BobS]

This is the kind of stuff that you forced the precision revolution in the airgun industry ~10 years ago.
I expect to see another rush to find the next 'leap' soon.

I see 2x 9s on that card.

2 nines out of 35 4 shot groups. Where can I buy that?? How much? and can I get overnight delivery>

 

[Ricochet]

Mike, Can we promote Lou to Thomas salseman of the year? He has earned it.