Come on now... the man is from Norway so English isn't his first language. Would you fair as well in Norwegian?
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FX Lock this thread please- Discussed with Fredrik, there is no evidence of POI shift in FX barrel liner system
- Thread starter mubhaur
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Yes, and they could still get the $300+ for a caliber Chang and have a better system all together.
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But then you can’t sell a “tensioner” that doesn’t actually tension the liner, to fix the POI problems that don’t exist.
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It does and it is easy to understand why. The scope is attached to the receiver, not the barrel. The thin wall, flexible barrel is attached to the receiver with a slip fit and secured with set screws. Every time the barrel is removed and reinstalled, it never returns to the same place. Secondly, there is nothing supporting the other end of the barrel. Then any stress placed on the barrel, even light knocks during transport will shift the POI. Even the weight of a moderator causes the barrel to bow. I use a barrel band on my Crown and it helps, but even at that, POI shift will still occur. Then loosening and retightening the band usually sorts it out. I now also use a CF tube over the barrel and this does also help, but it is the movement between the barrel and the receiver that is the main culprit. It simply is too loose and without a firm register. This design must change. I suggest using a conical seat in the receiver and a matching cone on the barrel and a clamping ring nut tightening on receiver threads would do wonders to help this issue, but even then there is still the flexible, thin wall barrel.A method I employ when trying to determine if barrel position/movement might be the physical cause of a POI shift is mounting a laser on the barrel then adjusting the laser dot so that it superimposes the crosshairs of the scope, then I torque, twist, bump, carress (), or even stare hard at the barrel and see if the position of the dot changes.
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I would like to address a miss statement made by others. It is patently incorrect to state that a barrel with forged rifling is inferior to a button rifled barrel. It is just wrong. Now, I do not know what method Fredrik is using, but having done a week's long armorer's course at Hecker & Koch and witnessing in person their barrel hammering machines in operation and personally inspecting the results, I can state that their barrels are much better than the old fashioned button process. That is not to say that excellent barrels are not also produced with button rifling, they are, but not with the consistency and finish of the hammered variant. I can be very specific on their process and why their quality is so high, but there is enough info on the web to read if you are interested.
I suspect Fredrick is not using a hammering machine. By inspecting the exterior surface of the FX barrels, I think his barrels are being roll forged, not hammered. If so, that is a different story. The main advantage of forged rifling is surface finish and alloy choice as the barrel tube can be honed and polished as a round tube before forging and then heat treated for wear resistance.
I suspect Fredrick is not using a hammering machine. By inspecting the exterior surface of the FX barrels, I think his barrels are being roll forged, not hammered. If so, that is a different story. The main advantage of forged rifling is surface finish and alloy choice as the barrel tube can be honed and polished as a round tube before forging and then heat treated for wear resistance.
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I do not use google translate. If I can do one mistake, out of twenty words, I am happy with that
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Since this topic is still kicking, I went back and read the opening statement. I’m curious if the denial of POI shifts covers everything in the FX lineup or was the conversation just about the Impact platform. I always remain objective and try to point my finger at the guy in the mirror because it’s the cheapest easiest thing to fix. But I can say with 100% certainty that the liner system they had on the Dreamtac Compacts were POI nightmares. So much so that the barrel mine came with vanished with the next years model. Was the gun accurate? It was crazy accurate. But you just never knew where it was going to group when you grabbed the gun. After years of playing chase the groups, I machined a real barrel for the gun and it has become a perfectly well behaved PCP.
Of the three Impacts I currently own, one for sure never had any unexplained POI shift over a long period of time. But my approach on that gun may be a contributing factor. When I bought it, I tore it down and basically blueprinted it. Made sure everything was the way I like it and the gun was flowing properly. I lightly tensioned the shroud with my own process and tuned the gun for the pellet I wanted to hunt with. After that I never touched the gun again. Not even a knob or different scope. The gun remained spot on accurate all summer and then in the fall when I hunted with it. I may have had to make a click here or there to fine tune my zero but no WTF moments. So no slugs and constantly messing around with the gun may have allowed my gun to be almost Taipan like. I’m sure having a 500mm barrel may have also helped.
Of the three Impacts I currently own, one for sure never had any unexplained POI shift over a long period of time. But my approach on that gun may be a contributing factor. When I bought it, I tore it down and basically blueprinted it. Made sure everything was the way I like it and the gun was flowing properly. I lightly tensioned the shroud with my own process and tuned the gun for the pellet I wanted to hunt with. After that I never touched the gun again. Not even a knob or different scope. The gun remained spot on accurate all summer and then in the fall when I hunted with it. I may have had to make a click here or there to fine tune my zero but no WTF moments. So no slugs and constantly messing around with the gun may have allowed my gun to be almost Taipan like. I’m sure having a 500mm barrel may have also helped.
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I agree. I think that true poi shift caused by a gun/barrel is often confused with changing weather conditions. You are exactly correct that it doesn’t take much wind to cause small poi shifts. Small shifts I believe are what most are talking about and why (Heavyimpact) that wind drift is completely valid to bring into this discussion.
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My FX dreamlite compact gets occasional POI shift. Very minimal. Maybe a pellet width or so at 25yds. The thought of it does bother me a bit...my gear not being perfect. But then I consider that with that gun I shot over 50 squirrels this season (it's been a light season for me) right above their eyeball, over and over, completely repeatable, and that makes the occasional POI shifts seem unimportant.
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Please tell this Mr Frederik that on invitation from me to get on a plane, fly down to South Africa, Port Elizabeth, so I can personally show him the POI shift on an FX M3.
I do not know his technical credentials but tell him to bring an engineer with, he is going to need one in our discussion. He can leave the marketing people, brand ambassadors and influencers at home, they will not add any value.
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I had decided not to further contribute to this thread but I cannot resist to request you to also invite me to the meeting
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I have the Maverick and where I think they really screwed up is not having the shroud threaded into the frame . With just a slip on shroud there is nothing but orings helping to help keep the liner and sleeve centered. I was frustrated when I realized the design. But its not so bad that I would get rid of it . It's a very accurate airgun and has a wide range of pellets and slugs tunes. A liner is around $100 but a different barrel for the Ghost is $500 . Same with magazines.
Wind , switching pellets, wandering scope , loose scope mounts, worn out orings ect could also be the case for poi changes. And other manufacturers are using fx liners as an option, aren't they ? Anyway I think the shorter barrels fair better because of leverage of weight and gravity .
Wind , switching pellets, wandering scope , loose scope mounts, worn out orings ect could also be the case for poi changes. And other manufacturers are using fx liners as an option, aren't they ? Anyway I think the shorter barrels fair better because of leverage of weight and gravity .
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Do you follow any of the major long distance competitions, such as EBR and RMAC?
If so, did you happen to notice which brand consistanly ranks in the top 10, year, after year, after year?
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To win a competition a gun has to be very accurate. But it only needs to maintain its POI for a card or for a practice session. Nobody here is saying they aren’t dead accurate guns.
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The vehicles that compete in the DAKAR race are not the same that I can buy from a dealer.
The guns used by sponsored shooters at high level competitions are definitely not the same that I buy from an airgun shop.
So, for the average person those high level competitions have zero significance of how my over the counter airgun will perform.
Sorry, your point is irrelevant to the average person buying an airgun from the average airgun retailer.
Unless you want to send me a bunch of barrels from a good batch so I can test them and pick the best one.
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