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- Thread starter Caliber 22
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that dep[ends on your gun /power /pellet / other
I shoot mainly 12 foot pounds so up to 50/60 yards is consistently good less than dime size groups or better .
I shoot mainly 12 foot pounds so up to 50/60 yards is consistently good less than dime size groups or better .
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Wind is a pellets biggest nemesis at distance particularly, moa is very possible at 100 yards with pellets depending on wind and a shooters ability to read it. I owned one of the original FX impacts in 25 cal. and shot pellets into the open end of a spent shotgun shell over 100 yards, multiple times. I have also shot many dime size groups on not so calm days (5-10mph) out to 60 yards with the same gun. I could be wrong about this but from videos I have seen and competitions I have watched, it seems the larger calibers are more stable in the wind (as far as pellets go)
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Ii have hit rabbits at 150 yards with my old Daystate Mk4 in 22 caliber. Well before the Era of slugs.
It can be done, you just need to find the correct pellets for your rifle.
It can be done, you just need to find the correct pellets for your rifle.
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I started a topic about this about a year ago. It’s buried somewhere in the projectile section. Personally I can’t get past 120 yards with several calibers. I have a 1.5” spinner at 115 yards. Can spin it regularly with my guns with no wind. Set a can at 135 yards and the train goes off the tracks.
As others have said depends on wind and if your rifle is perfectly tuned. I think a lot of people try to use pellet's at extended ranges and think they need to hit 900+ fps to do it. They might look great at 50 yds or even up to 100 but in my opinion it causes more problems when shooting pellets down range than helps. If you have everything balanced out correctly and the right velocity to keep consistent accuracy you can get out pretty far. The longest shot I have witnessed on an animal with a pellet was a 156 yard kill on a ground squirrel using a .22 cal tuned to 830 fps with 18 gr. JSB pellet's. It was a headshot but its not the kind of shot you will consistently get. Even with slugs its gonna be hard to consistently hit ground squirrel sized animals with head shots. Even with slugs and my current tune its a 1 moa drift at 150 yds in 2 mph winds and a 1.7 moa drift with a 3 mph wind. So even getting the wind call wrong by 1 mph its gonna be a miss on a ground squirrels head with a slug. Even with a chest shot its getting real close to be a miss with slugs if you do everything perfect but get the wind wrong by 1 mph.
Theres no magic and slugs do better than pellets but they are getting pushed around enough by the wind to cause issues also on smaller targets that I go after. I keep my long range shots to no wind or very little wind for best hit percentages at 100 yds and beyond.
Theres no magic and slugs do better than pellets but they are getting pushed around enough by the wind to cause issues also on smaller targets that I go after. I keep my long range shots to no wind or very little wind for best hit percentages at 100 yds and beyond.
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There seems to be a wall around a BC of 0.042-0.044ish. less than that, and it's a hope and a prayer to keep em less than bout 1.5" @ 100yds, mostly due to how much even a little wind can push them. Pellets with BCs above that cutoff can be surprisingly good, even at 100+ yards. And there are only about 5-6 pellets with better BCs than that.
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For long ranges with pellets, you will be better with a barrel with a low twist rate and a gun firing at lower speeds. This will help you to avoid pellet spiralling due to having too much stability.
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@Ballisticboy,
Is there any sort of quantified guidance available on when spiraling occurs or doesn't occur? For example is there a minimum ratio of velocity to RPM for a given BC or other pellet characteristic to ensure no spiraling?
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This was my first serious attempt at 100y with 18g Air Arms pellets. I think moa wouldn't be that hard get on a good day .
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There are a number of factors, some of which you will not easily be able to get hold of, such as the aerodynamic yaw moments. I am currently looking at the average gyroscopic stability factor, which includes most, but not all, of the relevant factors. There seems to be a small range of values of gyroscopic stability factor which gives the best values of group size, but there is still a lot of work to do, such as varying the error sources and their relative sizes to see if that will change the best average values.
Unfortunately, even if there is a "golden" range of stability factor, it is not something which can be easily calculated. There are currently no programs available to the public which can do it. It would be feasible for barrel and pellet manufacturers to produce matched designs for different ranges using complex software or old-fashioned aerodynamic prediction methods if they know how.
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I've lately seen some of the best pellet accuracy I've ever experienced, from low twist rate and HIGHER speeds.
There were some flashes of brilliance from a 1:22 twist .22 a few months ago, I don't really consider that a slow twist rate though. 980fps with .22/25.4s.
A 1:30 at 950-960 and a 1:32 also @ 950-960 are more recent, and, again the best I've seen with pellets @ 100 yards. Both the 1:30 and the 1:32 were tried at speeds as slow as 860-870 and results were meh. For 100 yard accuracy, these two barrels are MUCH better at 950-960 than they were at slower speeds.
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I thought you mentioned (Nov 15, 2022) that you "cannot see how gyroscopic over stability can be a cause of pellet spiralling". Or can gyroscopic stability impact spiraling in some other way, perhaps a relationship between dynamic stability and gyroscopic stability?
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Depends on the definition of good . Just for grins last nite I tried 150 yards with .25 mk2's had some switching winds but was able to hit a 2 inch gong about 75% of the time. This was off the tip of a tank trap w/bag PRS style barricade .
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Because it is not so much over stability as such. We always used to refer to over stability as when the projectile is so over stable that it cannot turn to follow the trajectory and ends up going sideways due to Magnus forces. That is not happening with pellets, all that is happening is that the yaw wave lengths are growing to be so long that the pellet can spiral rather than nicely following the trajectory. An over stable pellet would fly sideways, completely leaving the normal trajectory.
The relationship between gyroscopic and dynamic stability will change as the pellet moves down range though, as the negative gyroscopic stability gets higher, the likelihood of dynamic instability increases. Depending on the value of the dynamic stability factor, the dynamic instability could be precessional or nutational. Trying to accurately predict the dynamic stability of a pellet is a technical minefield.
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I tried slugs for the first time 5.5 years ago and have never gone back to pellets since, I couldn't handle such a drop in accuracy.
If you want to stay with a relatively cheap ammunition, I do not recommend trying the top slugs, as it is an extremely addictive matter.
Here in the video I'm posting shooting with pellets ( JSB .22 18.1 grain). It's a video from 2017 at 205m.
I was extremely lucky to have one batch of these JSB Jumbo Heavy, which I bought about 30 000 pcs of in 2012. When I was looking for replacements in 2016-2017 as the supplies were running out. So I arranged to test all the series, which were 19 types of the same Jumbo Heavy, but each from a different machine. Only 2 of the 19 worked out of 120m distance and only one even had relatively good accuracy (not as good as the 2013 series).
The others series after 100m (some even after 80m) get to a large spiral and lost accuracy.
My 2013 Jumbo Heavy series in my very first prototype rifle Altaros M24 set up to 42J never flew in a spiral even after 300m (a few attempts and a few times hit, but a net coincidence in the wind).
And now a demonstration of why I'll never go back to pellets. The distance is the same for both vids, 205m even the location is the same and the rifle is also the same with the same power setting.
The difference is the size of the target, with the slugs I shoot at a 10cm diameter circle (about 4 inches in diameter).
Pellets - 205m
Slugs first prototype Altaros ATP .22 31gr ( 2 poorly made slugs were used in the video with smaller diameter)
I also recommend looking at the date the video was uploaded, which was not intended for official publication. We finished the CNC turned slug technology in the first extremely unfinished phase at the end of November 2018, so these are really some of the first initial tests.
Simply pellets vs slug is incomparable difference in accuracy at distances over 130m
If you want to stay with a relatively cheap ammunition, I do not recommend trying the top slugs, as it is an extremely addictive matter.
Here in the video I'm posting shooting with pellets ( JSB .22 18.1 grain). It's a video from 2017 at 205m.
I was extremely lucky to have one batch of these JSB Jumbo Heavy, which I bought about 30 000 pcs of in 2012. When I was looking for replacements in 2016-2017 as the supplies were running out. So I arranged to test all the series, which were 19 types of the same Jumbo Heavy, but each from a different machine. Only 2 of the 19 worked out of 120m distance and only one even had relatively good accuracy (not as good as the 2013 series).
The others series after 100m (some even after 80m) get to a large spiral and lost accuracy.
My 2013 Jumbo Heavy series in my very first prototype rifle Altaros M24 set up to 42J never flew in a spiral even after 300m (a few attempts and a few times hit, but a net coincidence in the wind).
And now a demonstration of why I'll never go back to pellets. The distance is the same for both vids, 205m even the location is the same and the rifle is also the same with the same power setting.
The difference is the size of the target, with the slugs I shoot at a 10cm diameter circle (about 4 inches in diameter).
Pellets - 205m
Slugs first prototype Altaros ATP .22 31gr ( 2 poorly made slugs were used in the video with smaller diameter)
I also recommend looking at the date the video was uploaded, which was not intended for official publication. We finished the CNC turned slug technology in the first extremely unfinished phase at the end of November 2018, so these are really some of the first initial tests.
Simply pellets vs slug is incomparable difference in accuracy at distances over 130m
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After two solid days of barrel machining and slug testing, tonight I broke out my RTI P2 currently set up for pellets. Just lovely out to 90 yards. No drama, no lubes, just dropping pellets on top of each other with a friendly gun with friendly settings. Pellet guns keep us sane and they are much safer.
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