Need Advice On Taking Down Coyotes

[Jman4183]

No one likes to wound any animal.

Many birds go wounded when shooted with shotguns.

Many deer a year are wonded with bow and arrow and fire arms.

When hunting with air rifles every shot should be responsible trying to be deadly accurate.

Brain shots produce dead 100% of times, normally with some reflex movements.

I always try to give following shots to reduce suffering.

Go for brain shots more then is also what I am getting. These are a bit tougher to get as can be seen on the video. Coyotes when they come on my property certainly know to be on guard . However I have had some good luck making a strange yelp or call and they will present real quick for a head shot. Though usually then it's straight on. I have as I said had some issues with headshots not downing imediately with 77 grain Hades. This did surprise me. I did order the tungsten hammer, talked with the Pellet shop at length about the pros and cons. I also got some other ammo on sale to try out, some ZAN 83 grain I slugs I believe? Close to that, I like that they have the dimpled butt on the slug. I feel like that helps at least in my barrel. I also got some NSA 79 grain slugs. Eventually when I have some free time I will switch out to the tungsten hammer and go with 93 grain NSAs though I am told it can get much louder with the tungsten hammer. This isn't ideal with a sleeping wife in the next room . So we will see. If I can get away with a lighter slug that will still do the damage without too quick of an expansion I would be just as happy. Still if I ever want to go deer hunting or something It's nice to have the heavier hammer to shoot heavier slugs.

 

[Cranky1]

I’ve done well with double lung and spine shots. My favorite is when they come in with their head down facing you. I shoot them in the spine and they drop. I’ve also shot some (double lung)with larger center fire rifles and watched them run 100 yards then flop. A double lung from a 30or 357 will kill them, just not instantly. One of the best WTF shots I’ve seen was a deer shot through both back legs with an arrow. It made it about 10yards, hit both femoral and bled out quick.

 

[Jman4183]

Also as far as my research on Youtube is concerned, someone please correct me here...just using basic ballistics gel I think the standard domed JSB pellet has the most penetration out of any projectile. Tempting to buy one magazine full of hybrids for tree rats, racoons and the like...and one with more solid slugs or even those JSB pellets. I am only at 25 yards so I wouldn't think I would lose too much power at that range. Granted my gun does seem to shoot slugs as accurately as pellets. Well I am sure I will figure it out. I have read each and every one of your responses. I thank you so much for your input and reassurance that I am not a complete idiot. The last thing I want to do is leave a wounded animal. I really don't even know that I would shoot coyotes if my wife didn't press it on me. They are beautiful animals, though very clever and dangerous at the same time. So proper dispatching of these is my top priority.

 

[Emu]

Also as far as my research on Youtube is concerned, someone please correct me here...just using basic ballistics gel I think the standard domed JSB pellet has the most penetration out of any projectile. Tempting to buy one magazine full of hybrids for tree rats, racoons and the like...and one with more solid slugs or even those JSB pellets. I am only at 25 yards so I wouldn't think I would lose too much power at that range. Granted my gun does seem to shoot slugs as accurately as pellets. Well I am sure I will figure it out. I have read each and every one of your responses. I thank you so much for your input and reassurance that I am not a complete idiot. The last thing I want to do is leave a wounded animal. I really don't even know that I would shoot coyotes if my wife didn't press it on me. They are beautiful animals, though very clever and dangerous at the same time. So proper dispatching of these is my top priority.

If the coyote is looking to a side: aim at a point among ear and eye.

If the coyote is looking at you: aim at the lower and internal side of the eye.

With either of those shots the coyote won't ever give a step.

 

[BenjaminM]

@Jman4183 My understanding has been that the most ideal brain shot is the lower back of the head (towards the neck) into the brain stem. That's supposed to shut an animal down. That's the switch.

The temple works pretty good as well, or the base of the ear depending on what creatures you’re taking care of… if it was me, I’d spend some time looking at organ placement diagrams of the creatures I’m hunting.

Canines are put together one way, moose another, deer are similar to moose but a different kill zone, bears are weird. Shoot a bear in the standard kill zone area like you would a deer, and you’ll usually kill it, but he might run quite a ways before expiring.

With moose it’s all dependent on where he’s standing…sometimes you need to break the shoulder to put him down right where he stands, because if he goes and dies in the river or swamp it’s gonna be a real bad day.

A thin spot on the skull with a brain shot is ideal for the “lights out” scenario, but animals move around and the head being pretty round and tough, sometimes bullets that hit the skull hit at the wrong angle and deflect I’ve had it happen a couple times with large game. If you can’t have the critters running into the neighbors yard and dying a head shot might be just right. But once they drop I’d put another round into the vitals just in case you only knocked em out.

For coyotes I used to prefer the .17 hmr with a 17 grain ballistic tip, it does massive internal organ damage with low risk of ricoche and pass through issue. And a tiny needle hole in the pelt. The organs that experience the shock just turn to jelly.

With air rifles we are killing a different way. More like a black powder rifle than a 270 Winchester

 

[BenjaminM]

@Jman4183 You don't sound like a jerk, you seem confident in your abilities. Viewing the video on a larger screen it looks to me like shot #1 connected in the neck behind the jaw. Shot #2 still looks like a leg shot as it seemed to have fallen on its back with a leg in the air. Shot #3 looks like it may have been another neck shot. That was a tough one to see clearly. Two necks shots toward the side of the neck likely hit a large blood vessel. I'd think that it bled out somewhere. the leg shot would make it more difficult to travel fast. That's the best I can tell from viewing it on a larger screen. As for instant kills, I don't believe much in that without massive trauma or mayhem. Death is usually a process. I was no science major, but I loved biology and retained a significant amount. Even with a brain stem shot, death is a process from what I recall from my schooling. What I mean by that is that it takes time for an animal's body to shut down once signals from the brain are not reaching various organs and areas of the body because the pathway between the brain and spinal cord has been severely disrupted. The way I understand things, "hitting the switch" just ensures that the animal will drop and eventually die where it fell. I'm no expert. Maybe others saw this differently or have a better understanding than I. Thank you for sharing and being brave enough to put your work out there for feedback and critique.

I like your description of the process, I have had this experience hunting moose. Being so big and slow to die the prevailing advice is to get your kill shot in, then go get a cup of coffee and even eat lunch before approaching, they’ll lie down and die, but if you approach them before they’re done they might run a mile or two and then you’ve gotta pack them back…

Not to critique anyone else’s hunting philosophy, but I prefer the highest “chance of success“ kill shot. If you do a “heart/lungs shot” and are off by a little because he jumps as you pull the trigger then you’re still “in the kill zone” generally. Miss by a little on a head shot for any reason and you might just injure an animal or have a complete miss, and start educating the critter. After that they start getting harder and harder to kill.

To each their own though, every situation has different factors and priorities.

 

[BenjaminM]

The issue you’re having anchoring coyotes, can be solved by simply adding “Whelen” after the “.35”…..

For those not “in the know” that’s a gun that works great on moose and grizzly bears…lol I’m sure it’d work just fine on a coyote, or 30 of em in a straight line lol…

 

[Jman4183]

Yes, I think these are all excellent points and are helping me tremendously. Seems like I don't have enough penetration with the very frangible FX Hybrid 70 grain to consistently do a vital kill shot. It may hit a rib or something and break up. Or hit, not expand and the animal dies slightly later. The Hybrids I keep bringing up as I am so confident in their accuracy shooting wings off a fly isn't a stretch. I practice on pinky mice at night in the field behind my house sometimes just to keep my POI small and accurate. So it will just take some time to get that confidence with a more penetrating projectile. As I said, I do have FX which are just more expensive JSB 80 grain pellets, I have 93 grain NSA and 125 grain NSA and my tungsten hammer is shipping to shoot them at 930 fps. I have also ordered several other ZAN, and NSA slightly lighter slugs to see how deep the hollow point is. I can see on the 93 grain for instance it's just a dimple almost. Where on the FX Hybrids the entire thing is almost cavity. They are well made slugs though. Will just experiment a bit, get another magazine and swap it when needed for Coyotes vs any other vermin. It still sometimes boggles my mind though that people are taking coyotes with .22 cal PCPs regularly and it is surprising that ANY 70 grain projectile moving at 970fps wouldn't flatten a coyote...just shows how tough they really are I think.

 

[Jman4183]

Heres another question. Once I get the 93 grain NSAs tuned up with my tungsten hammer. What will happen if I use those against squirrels or chipmunks? hehe.

 

[BenjaminM]

Did any of them fall and die right there on the spot? That is sort of my goal....though am realizing through the advice of plenty of people on this thread that death is a process and that may not be a reasonable goal...These are problem coyotes so I don't mind if they go off into the woods and pass. I just don't want to be going around wounding animals you know?

Study the canine anatomy a bit and you’ll rest better knowing you put a lethal shot into them. I like the effect of “dumping them” right where they stand, but if it comes down to a kill shot or missing the opportunity because he didn’t present a perfect head shot….I’ll take the body cavity kill shot every single time. They’ll still die humanely. But man they are tough creatures and they can shock you sometimes just how far they can run when that adrenaline dumps.

 

[BenjaminM]

Also as far as my research on Youtube is concerned, someone please correct me here...just using basic ballistics gel I think the standard domed JSB pellet has the most penetration out of any projectile. Tempting to buy one magazine full of hybrids for tree rats, racoons and the like...and one with more solid slugs or even those JSB pellets. I am only at 25 yards so I wouldn't think I would lose too much power at that range. Granted my gun does seem to shoot slugs as accurately as pellets. Well I am sure I will figure it out. I have read each and every one of your responses. I thank you so much for your input and reassurance that I am not a complete idiot. The last thing I want to do is leave a wounded animal. I really don't even know that I would shoot coyotes if my wife didn't press it on me. They are beautiful animals, though very clever and dangerous at the same time. So proper dispatching of these is my top priority.

Don’t worry, you can’t kill em all. People have been trying for eons, and they still thrive. Given a chance they will lure your dog out and kill it off, and help themselves to any other edible creatures you and your neighbors might be fond of.

just give them time to die before handling the bodies… I’ve almost been bitten a couple times by ones that hadn’t quite “checked out”. Nobod wants that ER visi…

 

[HogKiller]

Yes, I think these are all excellent points and are helping me tremendously. Seems like I don't have enough penetration with the very frangible FX Hybrid 70 grain to consistently do a vital kill shot. It may hit a rib or something and break up. Or hit, not expand and the animal dies slightly later. The Hybrids I keep bringing up as I am so confident in their accuracy shooting wings off a fly isn't a stretch. I practice on pinky mice at night in the field behind my house sometimes just to keep my POI small and accurate. So it will just take some time to get that confidence with a more penetrating projectile. As I said, I do have FX which are just more expensive JSB 80 grain pellets, I have 93 grain NSA and 125 grain NSA and my tungsten hammer is shipping to shoot them at 930 fps. I have also ordered several other ZAN, and NSA slightly lighter slugs to see how deep the hollow point is. I can see on the 93 grain for instance it's just a dimple almost. Where on the FX Hybrids the entire thing is almost cavity. They are well made slugs though. Will just experiment a bit, get another magazine and swap it when needed for Coyotes vs any other vermin. It still sometimes boggles my mind though that people are taking coyotes with .22 cal PCPs regularly and it is surprising that ANY 70 grain projectile moving at 970fps wouldn't flatten a coyote...just shows how tough they really are I think.

I love the Hybrids, made by RMR (Rocky Mountain Reloading) in Idaho for FX (costs less from the manufacturer), they do love to go fast. They are designed to expand, give RMR a call and talk to the boss, he shoots airguns and might be able to give you some advice. I believe his name is Jake...‭(208) 251-9638‬ I'm pumping my .25's from my Maverick Sniper at 1040fps but I'm going after armored ground squirrels.

 

[JimD]

I am completely confident that any 357 round that will stop a coyote will also dispatch a squirrel easily. You absolutely do not need expansion with a 357 on a squirrel. I get DRT results with non-expanding 177, 22, and 25 caliber pellets. There is a little margin for not as great shot placement with the 25s and that would be even more true for a 357. The only potential issue is hitting things behind the squirrel. The round will pass through. The only advantage to a rapidly expanding round like a hybrid is to minimize pass throughs and the remaining energy with a pass through. Killing the squirrel will be fast with a decently placed non-expanding 357 round.

 

[Jman4183]

Thanks for the advice HogKiller. I absolutely will give them a call as I love their quality control on their slugs. They work perfectly and are very repeatably insta kills for even large racoons. It seems like I am given a forum to post my work for people to share their own stories which is cool. So this racoon for instance...idk maybe a bit smaller than these coyotes but having to lift the bodies with a shovel weight wise they aren't too different. I can one shot these in the head and they go down each and every time with the FX .357 Hybrids. Leave a bloody mess with huge expansion to boot. Those coyotes though, I have not gone for a headshot with the hybrids but man they are so much tougher. I just watched a video my friend sent me too of a security guard or cop unloading a full magazine off her side arm 9mm, then stopping to reload and continue to try and kill the racoon. So I know they are considered relatively tough as well. Yet no problem for the Hybrids. Really goes to show the hardiness and tankiness of a coyote.

 

[Jman4183]

I love the Hybrids, made by RMR (Rocky Mountain Reloading) in Idaho for FX (costs less from the manufacturer), they do love to go fast. They are designed to expand, give RMR a call and talk to the boss, he shoots airguns and might be able to give you some advice. I believe his name is Jake...‭(208) 251-9638‬ I'm pumping my .25's from my Maverick Sniper at 1040fps but I'm going after armored ground squirrels.

I bought a bunch of the Hybrids on sale for $16.99 100 packs at the Pellet Shop. Don't think they are that price anymore. The boxes were damaged a bit but I didn't care. What do they usually charge you for a 100 pack? Are they all shiney and lubed like when they are packaged from FX? I am very intrigued.

 

[Chief Ten-Beers]

I bought a bunch of the Hybrids on sale for $16.99 100 packs at the Pellet Shop. Don't think they are that price anymore. The boxes were damaged a bit but I didn't care. What do they usually charge you for a 100 pack? Are they all shiney and lubed like when they are packaged from FX? I am very intrigued.

I went and looked at the .22 cal. They are sold in lots of 500 for $60.00 I didn't see any smaller quantities.

 

[Cranky1]

The nsa 93 grain penetrate very well from my unscientific testing. I shot through 3 of the large cat littler water jugs with complete pass through at 35 yards(about 30in a water). I also had complete pass throughs on armadillos at 75-100 yards. I wish I hit record on the scope, but I would have to pm that video. The only dillo/coons that were dropped on the spot were headshot or spine shot facing me.

 

[Jman4183]

Send them on over . Would love to see those 93 grains in action. As I have some work to do in getting that hammer installed with my saber tactical top rail, 800mm tensioned barrel system, optics, before I even can get to unscrewing the valve adjuster screw to get started. I also have a stripped rear reg adjustment screw which needs some super glue and an allen key to get out, though the Pellet shop sent another to me right away. Still, by the time I am done I will have most of the gun taken apart to fix the rear reg screw, and putting the new hammer weight in. Were you using those 93 grains on an FX? Or your Rattler? I know you mentioned you have had both. (jelous on the rattler).

 

[Cranky1]

Send them on over . Would love to see those 93 grains in action. As I have some work to do in getting that hammer installed with my saber tactical top rail, 800mm tensioned barrel system, optics, before I even can get to unscrewing the valve adjuster screw to get started. I also have a stripped rear reg adjustment screw which needs some super glue and an allen key to get out, though the Pellet shop sent another to me right away. Still, by the time I am done I will have most of the gun taken apart to fix the rear reg screw, and putting the new hammer weight in. Were you using those 93 grains on an FX? Or your Rattler? I know you mentioned you have had both. (jelous on the rattler).

I was running a m3 800mm tensioned kit with pin probe and tungsten hammer with the 93grn nsa at 915 fps( I sold it). Im now going to run a sidewinder s in 30 cal but would like a 357 or 457 rattler. I tend not to record most of my coyote hunts. I usually night hunt otherwise I grab my powder burner since it’s much harder to get them into a proper range during the day.

 

[Jman4183]

I was running a m3 800mm tensioned kit with pin probe and tungsten hammer with the 93grn nsa at 915 fps( I sold it). Im now going to run a sidewinder s in 30 cal but would like a 357 or 457 rattler. I tend not to record most of my coyote hunts. I usually night hunt otherwise I grab my powder burner since it’s much harder to get them into a proper range during the day.

Oh, you are just the man I want to talk to then! Did the tungsten hammer drastically increase the noise of the gun? I would imagine it would also increase felt recoil, however being mounted on a tripod I am a bit less worried about this than I am my sleeping wife down the hall. Thoughts?