Daystate Blackwolf information

I recently had an email discussion with AOA
regarding several questions I had, that would affect someone‘s selection of the proper Blackwolf “for them”; especially if wanting to use it for field target.

I was interested in:

#1 The weight of various options
bottle v tube v stock.

#2 platform power and caliber changes.

note - I wanted a comparison to the Ghost as changes to the Ghost are pretty straightforward.

On the Blackwolf there are a couple of things that make caliber and barrel changes slightly more involved if you’re wanting to go from low power HFT to high power EFT.
This discussion did not specifically address WFTF <12 fpe.

Here is what I learned:

If you are wanting to get under 20ft-lbs for HFT with this gun, you need to go with the L.P. 17" barrel option.
Why?
With the larger transfer port and big plenum on the Blackwolf H.P. Models you will have trouble getting the gun to shoot at lower powers. EFT, no problem.

With the 17" .177 L.P. Model using a smaller transfer port, AOA reports that they got it to work really well under 20ft-lbs so that‘s the best option for people wanting to stay <20 FPE.

They suggested or reported that the 23" L.P. Model in .177 may struggle to get under 20 FPE.

Regarding shot count, bottle version, right now the .177 17" got 250 shots max (i.e. at low reg settings) <20 for? or about 125 shots at 30ft-lbs.

AOA suggested that the cylinder version, not in stock, would get closer to 150-175 shots but don't quote me.

Weights:
The 17" .177 cylinder / tube version in carbon grey is 6.9lbs, walnut 7.5lbs, Laminate 7.9lbs.

Note:

selecting the in stock “bottle“ version in any of the available platforms, shaves off .5lb.
Over the 480cc? Bottle Choice.

bottom line-if you’re wondering, the cylinder / tube versions are .5 lbs heavier.

Thus the lightest possible configuration would be a grey carbon stock with a 330 cc bottle by special request.

And if you’re at field target person you will have to choose the L.P. 17” version.

Some additional info as of 3/11/2025:

AOA reports being able to get low power, but even the lightest (white) spring was "too strong" at low reg pressures of 80-90bar and they reported getting zero velocity change with the PWR wheel; and mentioned it was still using a lot of air and sounded wasteful (and didn't shoot great).
They ended up using the transfer port from the UK sub12 guns with everything else the same and it worked perfectly.
The plan is to include the high power transfer port as well as the low power one so customers can use either.
The conversion is simple, the transfer port is a brass piece threaded onto the barrel - all you would need to do is remove the barrel and swap out the transfer ports.

AOA reported a shooter used the Blackwolf in the Sonoran Grand Prix a few weeks ago and it shot really well.

With the different transfer port it got 17-19ft-lbs at 90bar reg and was very efficient. I think we set his up for 10gr but 13gr will work fine as well.
The platform can still swap to any caliber/barrel length you want even with the 17" barrel so that won't be an issue.
 
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So far the only thing I'm seeing that I don't love is where they put the grub screws for the barrel...down from the top of the scope rail, like the Red Wolf. Gotta pull the scope to pull the barrel for a cleaning.

When I got the Ghost I was QUITE pleased that the grub screw was on the side of the gun, and that the scope could stay right where it should (on the rail!) through the barrel removal/cleaning/replacement process.
 
So far the only thing I'm seeing that I don't love is where they put the grub screws for the barrel...down from the top of the scope rail, like the Red Wolf. Gotta pull the scope to pull the barrel for a cleaning.

When I got the Ghost I was QUITE pleased that the grub screw was on the side of the gun, and that the scope could stay right where it should (on the rail!) through the barrel removal/cleaning/replacement process.
We should add that to observations daystate needs to hear
 
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So far the only thing I'm seeing that I don't love is where they put the grub screws for the barrel...down from the top of the scope rail, like the Red Wolf. Gotta pull the scope to pull the barrel for a cleaning.

When I got the Ghost I was QUITE pleased that the grub screw was on the side of the gun, and that the scope could stay right where it should (on the rail!) through the barrel removal/cleaning/replacement process.
 
Placing the grub screws in the top of the rail is an aesthetics thing...but man I hate pulling the scope off a gun...when I played with the Red Wolf, after reattaching the scope, the zero wouldn't ever be too far off...but just the idea of pulling the scope messes with my confidence in the gun and my dope data still being solid.
 
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It's an aesthetics thing...but man I hate pulling the scope off a gun...when I played with the Red Wolf, after reattaching the scope, the zero wouldn't ever be too far off...but just the idea of pulling the scope messes with my confidence in the gun and my dope data still being solid.
@Franklink I realize it’s an off-topic question, but why does this occur? If you make note of where the scope was mounted, does this still occur?
 
@Franklink I realize it’s an off-topic question, but why does this occur? If you make note of where the scope was mounted, does this still occur?

It's a minimal thing with the Red Wolf, and likely will be minimal with the BlackWolf. Usually as close as within a couple clicks.

The "problem" if you could call it that, is how big of a role confidence in your equipment plays when in a competition. Just knowing that I pulled the scope off messes with my confidence in POI, and therefore trajectory data

As for the "why"....I really don't know with 100% certainty. Probably a whole bunch of small factors combined-almost like a tolerance stacking sort of thing....all the factors at play, together, combine to effect the poi. Maybe differences in how tight you get the mounts? Although I've used quick detach scope mounts and still see a difference in poi of a couple clicks after removing and reinstalling a scope.
 
It's a minimal thing with the Red Wolf, and likely will be minimal with the BlackWolf. Usually as close as within a couple clicks.

The "problem" if you could call it that, is how big of a role confidence in your equipment plays when in a competition. Just knowing that I pulled the scope off messes with my confidence in POI, and therefore trajectory data

As for the "why"....I really don't know with 100% certainty. Probably a whole bunch of small factors combined-almost like a tolerance stacking sort of thing....all the factors at play, together, combine to effect the poi. Maybe differences in how tight you get the mounts? Although I've used quick detach scope mounts and still see a difference in poi of a couple clicks after removing and reinstalling a scope.
Also for whatever reason sometimes a scope will "settle in" after being remounted. It's happened more than a few times to me and not just on airguns. It goes like this - remount, resight in, shoot for a while, then all of a sudden there's a slight unexpected shift, and just enough to miss small targets. It's usually only 1. to .2 mil but it's enough to cause problems. That's using nice scopes, expensive rings, and good guns.

Most of the time everything goes fine. Ha, it's a fear I have because will I get bit or will I be okay.
 
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So far the only thing I'm seeing that I don't love is where they put the grub screws for the barrel...down from the top of the scope rail, like the Red Wolf. Gotta pull the scope to pull the barrel for a cleaning.

When I got the Ghost I was QUITE pleased that the grub screw was on the side of the gun, and that the scope could stay right where it should (on the rail!) through the barrel removal/cleaning/replacement process.
You don't think pulling the barrel can cause slight POI shifts either??
 
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You don't think pulling the barrel can cause slight POI shifts either??

Can and does, at least a few clicks.

It's a multi factor compiled effect situation....either way, the barrel gets pulled for cleaning, whether the breech screws are top or side of rail. But when you gotta pull the scope IN ADDITION to pulling the barrel....well you're messing with even more factors than can alter poi and the prior confirmed trajectory.
 
Can and does, at least a few clicks.

It's a multi factor compiled effect situation....either way, the barrel gets pulled for cleaning, whether the breech screws are top or side of rail. But when you gotta pull the scope IN ADDITION to pulling the barrel....well you're messing with even more factors than can alter poi and the prior confirmed trajectory.
I agree I personally don't like to pull barrel unless I absolutely have to. Usually just use pull throughs so only have to remove a shroud/LDC. Barrel and scope stay put
 
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I agree I personally don't like to pull barrel unless I absolutely have to. Usually just use pull throughs so only have to remove a shroud/LDC. Barrel and scope stay put

Same here. On barrel/projectile combos that HAVE to be cleaned, I'll do pull throughs as a band aid measure for awhile. But eventually pull the barrel and do an actual deep clean. Some only need a deep clean every couple tins, some need it ever couple hundred shots.
 
I ordered one a couple of weeks ago. Got the 17” 177 in walnut with the tube specifically for field target and 25 meter bench rest, and it looks so damn good. If the hi power version is anything like the ghost you might be able to get below 20fp. I got the hi power ghost in 177 and 23” barrel and dropped the reg to 100 and switched the hammer spring to the lightest one and no problem. So maybe?
 
Can and does, at least a few clicks.

It's a multi factor compiled effect situation....either way, the barrel gets pulled for cleaning, whether the breech screws are top or side of rail. But when you gotta pull the scope IN ADDITION to pulling the barrel....well you're messing with even more factors than can alter poi and the prior confirmed trajectory.
This information puts the advantages of a pull through system in a whole new light for me.
 
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This information puts the advantages of a pull through system in a whole new light for me.
In my opinion, the pull throughs are a better than nothing, but nowhere close to a coated one piece rod endeavor. Can get a barrel MUCH cleaner with tight fittings patches on a jag in the end of a rod than possible with pull throughs.
 
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