N/A Making an airgun something it was not intended to be

Over the years, I've been asked to get more power, change caliber, change the form, etc., for things in production. It has sometimes been fun and sometimes fairly tedious and frustrating. MOST of this is probably on me when I've "brainstormed around the campfire " with friends. I've been preoccupied with airguns since the late 70s and done a fair share of "upgrading" along the way to the level of accumulating the machine tools and experience to be ABLE to do these things. Some of the "upgrades" were instigated by nothing being available with that attribute and some were just "I've got this airgun... what can I do with it".
Case in point... a friend contacted me about converting a rifle to pistol for FT competition ... which I did and feel it went decently ... THAT project created the interest for me to look at my own collection and see what might be a candidate 😉 So my first attempt was convertingan EVOL 22 to legal comp pistol for FT... Now it's been campaigned a couple of times but is a bit light... While working on that, I noticed that I have a pile of old Red Wolf parts so when a fried offered up a small bottle, decided to make it a reality and set to work to see if it was possible ... the result is this:
20250428_064323.jpg

20250428_064245.jpg

which I campaigned this weekend at ROT somewhat unspectacularly, BUT which was absolutely a joy and was stellar on it's part...
Now, this thread idea was generated by a Wolverine thread earlier and the Wolverine is an absolutely wonderful rifle but has design limitations that I've repeatedly seen criticised because people buy it for what it is, then want to make it something it's not , and whine when it doesn't work out. There are a good number of potential examples of this.
Now there are a good sample of capable people out there that can likely make airguns do what they were not designed to do and I applaud them and enjoy the journey when they choose to share it... I just get somewhat irritated I guess by those that criticize one that doesn't do what THEY WANT, even though it's not designed for it...
So thanks for your attention on my little rant...
Bob
 
Why can't anyone explain why the 3 inch rule exists?
Why do you challenge it ?
3 inch rule is not difficult to achieve in most pistols out there used for PFT, it only becomes an issue for those of us making FT pistollas from rifles & therefor trim as needed for compliance.

* Tho question asked likely to deal with NOT providing a palm shelf type extension which would aid offhand where others that were under 3" might be at a disadvantage. State 3" and everyone is at a similar & equal disadvantage :rolleyes:
 
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Why can't anyone explain why the 3 inch rule exists?

Being the individual most responsible for Pistol Field Target rules, I can explain it. I was not only one of the five PFT rules committee members (plus a Chairman) assembled by AAFTA to compose a set of pistol rules for the Board Of Governors to consider, but am also the individual that overthrew the Chairman of the rules committee in a hostile coup when his habitual missing in action threatened to destroy eight months of often contentious work by the rest of us.

I was the most vocal advocate of logic, reason and retaining some semblance of PISTOL in the pistol FT rules. No limit on fore-end depths DOESN'T!

You're welcome,
Ron
 
I can’t understand what the advantage to the shooter would be if that dimension was more tan 3 inches.
In my opinion, a more upright, less contorted shooting position. Also less pistolesque.

FWIW, had the liberal voices prevailed the only difference between an Open Class FT rifle and an FT pistol would be a pistol grip instead of a butt-stock.

1745876070674.png


.
 
In my opinion, a more upright, less contorted shooting position. Also less pistolesque.

FWIW, had the liberal voices prevailed the only difference between an Open Class FT rifle and an FT pistol would be a pistol grip instead of a butt-stock.

View attachment 558707

.
Seems like that "pistol" is trying to compensate for something.
 
Rifles converted to AAFTA pistol legal are still pretty damn exotic with very few of them able to be shot like a true pistol ( One handed ) :ROFLMAO:

Picture 1) a pistol to FT pistol staying pistol looking and compact !!
Picture 2) a Rifle to Pistol conversion that is still fairly compact.
Picture 3) a Rifle to Extreme Pistol conversion & yes a Large and Heavy rig.
Picture #4) a Rifle to Pistol conversion and it to a fairly large and heavy rig.

All are AAFTA legal in the 25"/15"/3" rule ( Tho #3 ) is a >20 fpe rig and others are >12 fpe rigs.

e.jpg


j.jpg


j.jpg


thumbnail69.jpg
 
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Over the years, I've been asked to get more power, change caliber, change the form, etc., for things in production. It has sometimes been fun and sometimes fairly tedious and frustrating. MOST of this is probably on me when I've "brainstormed around the campfire " with friends. I've been preoccupied with airguns since the late 70s and done a fair share of "upgrading" along the way to the level of accumulating the machine tools and experience to be ABLE to do these things. Some of the "upgrades" were instigated by nothing being available with that attribute and some were just "I've got this airgun... what can I do with it".
Case in point... a friend contacted me about converting a rifle to pistol for FT competition ... which I did and feel it went decently ... THAT project created the interest for me to look at my own collection and see what might be a candidate 😉 So my first attempt was convertingan EVOL 22 to legal comp pistol for FT... Now it's been campaigned a couple of times but is a bit light... While working on that, I noticed that I have a pile of old Red Wolf parts so when a fried offered up a small bottle, decided to make it a reality and set to work to see if it was possible ... the result is this:
View attachment 558587
View attachment 558588
which I campaigned this weekend at ROT somewhat unspectacularly, BUT which was absolutely a joy and was stellar on it's part...
Now, this thread idea was generated by a Wolverine thread earlier and the Wolverine is an absolutely wonderful rifle but has design limitations that I've repeatedly seen criticised because people buy it for what it is, then want to make it something it's not , and whine when it doesn't work out. There are a good number of potential examples of this.
Now there are a good sample of capable people out there that can likely make airguns do what they were not designed to do and I applaud them and enjoy the journey when they choose to share it... I just get somewhat irritated I guess by those that criticize one that doesn't do what THEY WANT, even though it's not designed for it...
So thanks for your attention on my little rant...
Bob
Excellent post sir!
I was mesmerized by your Redwolf pistolI at ROT this weekend!

I’m often concerned by people wanting to make Airguns more and more powerful, thus pushing the envelope with things like full automatic modes. My concern is the undue attention and future laws these types of changes will likely bring to Airguns. To date and still enjoy for (the moment) minimal federal oversight.

I have pondered this same issue many many times and consider it a true “arms race” , my perseveration always ends in a simple thought: just because we can…should we?

My personal thoughts regarding making any changes to an Airgun is always about air consumption, accuracy, reliability and ergonomics and of course that sweet crisp snap of a perfect trigger break which lingers in the air for the entire time a pellet is finding it’s target.

Bobby, thanks for all the great wisdom and advice you share here !
 
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Rifles converted to AAFTA pistol legal are still pretty damn exotic with very few of them able to be shot like a true pistol ( One handed ) :ROFLMAO:

Picture 1) a pistol to FT pistol staying pistol looking and compact !!
Picture 2) a Rifle to Pistol conversion that is still fairly compact.
Picture 3) a Rifle to Extreme Pistol conversion & yes a Large and Heavy rig.
Picture #4) a Rifle to Pistol conversion and it to a fairly large and heavy rig.

All are AAFTA legal in the 25"/15"/3" rule ( Tho #3 ) is a >20 fpe rig and others are >12 fpe rigs.

View attachment 558708

View attachment 558710

View attachment 558711

View attachment 558712
Sexy pistolis
 
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Being the individual most responsible for Pistol Field Target rules, I can explain it. I was not only one of the five PFT rules committee members (plus a Chairman) assembled by AAFTA to compose a set of pistol rules for the Board Of Governors to consider, but am also the individual that overthrew the Chairman of the rules committee in a hostile coup when his habitual missing in action threatened to destroy eight months of often contentious work by the rest of us.

I was the most vocal advocate of logic, reason and retaining some semblance of PISTOL in the pistol FT rules. No limit on fore-end depths DOESN'T!

You're welcome,
Ron
I'm GLAD you pushed through on the Pistol FT and definitely there needs to be a LIMIT.
I've enjoyed your builds and Scott's as well. Scott's valve work is particularly interesting to me and I'm appreciative of the sharing of his projects. Of course , both of you are influential to a lot of us...
It WAS a challenge to keep under the 3" limit but that's ok... the whole project was a challenge and just to see how possible it was and how it might turn out. I particularly love the Red Wolf action and if you got to see it in action with the L&L thumb shifter, you'd understand that part of it. It isn't finished though... I already have changes in mind.
In spite of the appearance, I tend to run as simple as possible and not depend on a lot of accessories or pushing the limits... just wanted to see if it was possible here.

@cavedweller , I agree on a lot of the attempts to reach pb performance with air COMMERCIALLY, and definitely the visibility, but do think it's important to keep development moving by experimenters. I'm with you about not being interested in autos and really not much interested in big bores but do enjoy seeing guys like Scott Hull developing his "rifle " for the EBR and RMAC big bore events... a lot of effort and science going into that.

Nice builds, Scott... thanks for posting ... of course , your builds were an influence on the possibilities ..

Bob