Dive Shop Experience

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BradAir

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May 9, 2021
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TX, United States
Took a new scuba tank to the dive shop and I wasn't expecting such drama about the act
Dude said he needed to visually inspect the tank before filling. I told him I wasn't using it for life support/diving just filling an airgun. Then dude went on about how that didn't matter, it's something that needed to be done according to DOT rules and regs for transporting the bottle in my truck after I left...He went on about other government rules and laws, and regs and I kinda just glossed over and replied, "Well, you would know what's required!"
I was told initially it would be ready end of the day. It was 9am at this point and would require another 30mile trip. I said, "It's the middle of Illinois in December, didn't know there would be such of backlog of tanks being filled?" Then dude says it would be 20 minutes. (What a yo-yo)

When it was done, the charge was $25 and only 2700psi because dude said it would need to sit and cool to top it off to 3000. I don't know anything about that, but I wouldn't think another 300psi would matter. Anyhoo. I believe I'll be getting the VEVOR $170 amazon 4500psi compressor...too much nonsense, time, fuel cost to mess with the SCUBA tank and then I have to hand pump the 500psi to full 3000psi anyway.

Thoughts?
 
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BradAir said:
Took a new scuba tank to the dive shop and I wasn't expecting such drama about the act
Dude said he needed to visually inspect the tank before filling. I told him I wasn't using it for life support/diving just filling an airgun. Then dude went on about how that didn't matter, it's something that needed to be done according to DOT rules and regs for transporting the bottle in my truck after I left...He went on about other government rules and laws, and regs and I kinda just glossed over and replied, "Well, you would know what's required!"
I was told initially it would be ready end of the day. It was 9am at this point and would require another 30mile trip. I said, "It's the middle of Illinois in December, didn't know there would be such of backlog of tanks being filled?" Then dude says it would be 20 minutes. (What a yo-yo)

When it was done, the charge was $25 and only 2700psi because dude said it would need to sit and cool to top it off to 3000. I don't know anything about that, but I wouldn't think another 300psi would matter. Anyhoo. I believe I'll be getting the VEVOR $170 amazon 4500psi compressor...too much nonsense, time, fuel cost to mess with the SUBA tank and then I have to hand pump the 500psi to full 3000psi anyway.

Thoughts?
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Don't go cheap on the compressor. Get something good and solid that's been in the marketplace for a number of years and has a good reputation and never look back.
 
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beerthief said:
dude was right about letting the tank cool off and then filling to full
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You got fast fills like it seemed he did or slow fills in a water filled tank .. ( also the water tank helps Incase a tank splits it seam and absorbs the explosion..lol).



Probly his inspection was just pull the valve and inspect the inside of the tank with a light and scope thing ( more then likely a flashlight and his eye balls). Probably did not know you as a regular and can't blame him for safe then sorry issues .. so no big deal.. liability / lawsuits can ruin a man and his business. So cant blame the guy overall .
 
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Str8tshooter said:
He may have never seen a carbon fiber tank before or maybe your brand? When I brought my Great White to a dive shop for it's first fill the owner told me, if this tank fails we are both dead and my building is flattened and he makes peanuts on a tank fill. That had my attention and I get it.
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Well that is informative! This is just a standard aluminum 3000psi tank.
 
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WorriedMan said:
Brad,
Be aware the $170 oil-less, waterless Vevor is good for 20-25 hours, about a year to year and a half, if not overheated and only used for gun filling. Rebuilding success is reportedly limited. Like Beerthief alluded to, moisture control needs consideration as the included small cotton-filled filter rarely cuts it. WM
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Good to know. I am shooting a SAM Marauder from a kitchen table at 25yds to just FAFO. If I get more serious about the airgun thing I'll hop up the quality. I did see a youtube review on the 170 unit and he added a cannister to help with the moisture filtration.
 
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My Yong Heng was more like $300 but has already served me well for a couple years. It fills my 45 minute SCBA tank (available inexpensively on ebay if expired) approximately monthly to 300 bar in less than 30 minutes. I have an extra drier filled with color change dessicant and additional cooling on it, however. At $25/fill (really a partial fill of even a SCUBA tanks and only about a half fill of a SCBA) you'd cover the compressor cost in a year. Maybe 1.3 years to also cover the extras.

The little portable 12/120V compressors are not what I would use to fill a bottle. Their motors are tiny (250-350W) so they will take a LONG time and the most inexpensive ones cannot run long enough at a time to do it. My YH pulls about 1500W. It is still a pretty small cpmpressor but I think the performance for what you pay is great.

Exploding tanks are a myth. It can be made to happen by overfilling a tank with flaws in it but the Navy report says they've never had it in thousands of SCBA tanks. The Navy did the study to see if longer lifetimes and an alternate inspection technique were OK. I don't think they extended lifetimes but the data supported it. Tanks with damage should not be filled but relatively old ones with no damage are OK at my house. I worry a lot more about lines and fittings than I do the tank.
 
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BradAir said:
Good to know. I am shooting a SAM Marauder from a kitchen table at 25yds to just FAFO. If I get more serious about the airgun thing I'll hop up the quality. I did see a youtube review on the 170 unit and he added a cannister to help with the moisture filtration.
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One of our members, Ray_PR, has two years on one, replacement on standby, following careful protocols to reduce heat-stress. The extra cannister program is a good idea but filling that cannister will count towards the limited lifetime hours available. I'm more in-line with JimD's thinking, but multiple PCPs, a little further down the rabbit hole. Enjoy the Marauder, WM
 
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JimD said:
Exploding tanks are a myth. It can be made to happen by overfilling a tank with flaws in it but the Navy report says they've never had it in thousands of SCBA tanks. The Navy did the study to see if longer lifetimes and an alternate inspection technique were OK. I don't think they extended lifetimes but the data supported it. Tanks with damage should not be filled but relatively old ones with no damage are OK at my house. I worry a lot more about lines and fittings than I do the tank.
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So these should be a safe bet then?

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I am still unclear about the actual requirements. I'm not talking about a persons comfort level with high pressure, just actual requirements. The only limitations I have been able to find for inspections and pressure levels are all found in ANSI, NIOSH and DOT requirements. Most of these refer to "Service life". Service life has been argued in other standards and seems to be limited to "Continuous use for intended purpose". In our case these tanks, both SCBA and SCUBA include intended purpose as a "Breathing Apparatus". When outdated and no longer used for this purpose the safety requirements are no longer applicable. Again, I am not trying to spark a debate over the safety of using outdated tanks, just the legality to use and fill them.
 
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My dive shop experience mirrored yours. It prompted me to unpack the Bauer Junior II I left crated for 4 years. At first, because we were getting ready to move (2 years), and after moving to my 477 acre farm, I didn't need to use air guns, I used my powder burners. Moved again to a more urban area. Couple of back and forth trips (he would not fill while I waited) and paying like $21 for a fill from 3,500 psi to 4,000 psi and I learned how use that Bauer real quick.
 
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Lewis said:
I am still unclear about the actual requirements. I'm not talking about a persons comfort level with high pressure, just actual requirements. The only limitations I have been able to find for inspections and pressure levels are all found in ANSI, NIOSH and DOT requirements. Most of these refer to "Service life". Service life has been argued in other standards and seems to be limited to "Continuous use for intended purpose". In our case these tanks, both SCBA and SCUBA include intended purpose as a "Breathing Apparatus". When outdated and no longer used for this purpose the safety requirements are no longer applicable. Again, I am not trying to spark a debate over the safety of using outdated tanks, just the legality to use and fill them.
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Lewis, "intended use" for airgunners is probably way less stressful for tanks than the intended use that the regulations refer to (i.e. going into burning buildings or external pressure changes diving at depths). While they are within "legal" time limits, the regulations apply & shop fills are governed by authorities (NIOSH, NFPA, DOT, etc.) & SHOPS have to adhere to the regulations. AFTER those time limits they can't be used for THOSE intended purposes Scuba or SCBA (self-contained breathing apparatus). THAT'S when they become "secretly owned" & home filled by us airgunners & we don't have to adhere (because we're not gonna tell anyone, are we? ;)(y))
 
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Gerry52 said:
Lewis, "intended use" for airgunners is probably way less stressful for tanks than the intended use that the regulations refer to (i.e. going into burning buildings or external pressure changes diving at depths). While they are within "legal" time limits, the regulations apply & shop fills are governed by authorities (NIOSH, NFPA, DOT, etc.) & SHOPS have to adhere to the regulations. AFTER those time limits they can't be used for THOSE intended purposes Scuba or SCBA (self-contained breathing apparatus). THAT'S when they become "secretly owned" & home filled by us airgunners & we don't have to adhere (because we're not gonna tell anyone, are we? ;)(y))
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Agreed, we don’t have to “adhere” to “their” rules but those rules are for everyones safety that comes near that tank. You sure wouldn’t want that tank to explode while you’re filling or while someone else is standing next to you watching.

We should at the very least try to inspect the interior of our tank and look for corrosion that could result from a compressor blowing water through to its interior. Plenty of YT videos available on what they look for and criteria for condemning. Needless to say watching a YT video does not make one a “certified” inspector but at least you went to the trouble to learn something to prevent disaster.
A peak inside the tank once a year confirming dry, pit free interior can be some peace of mind. Having the simple tools, a light to lower into the tank and a dental mirror to inspect the threads and a critical eye and maybe even documenting when and what you saw, if anything is a good idea.

As most folks are aware, if you do electrical work in your residence and a fire results from your work your insurance company walks away. The last thing an insurance company wants to do is pay out money. Pretty sure the same would go if your compressor/tank set up had a catastrophic unscheduled rapid disassembly, as SpaceX calls it.
Protect yourself.
 
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Scuba cylinders require a yearly visual inspection and five year hydro testing intervals. After that five years expires any scuba tank will require testing again even if it has sat unused, it's the regulation. With scuba cylinders as long as they can pass inspection and hydro testing you can keep using them indefinitely. There is no chronological expiration date from manufacturing time as with the carbon fiber cylinders.
 
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Some dive shops are extremely expensive, some are extremely picky about who they will fill a tank for as in only those with diving certification. Some can only fill to certain pressures. With the cost of compressors coming down versus the cost of tanks, fill adaptors and the tank maintenance requirements it would be wise to make some calls to check and compare actual prices before jumping on one or the other. Some places, high pressure tanks have access to cheap and easy fills, others will find that impossible and a compressor would be the only option aside from hand pumping.
 
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I appreciate all the responses to my post. I think after this tank drops to 2000psi fills I'll sell it and get the Vevor $170 unit and attach an external filter. I only need to fill the 215cc cylinder on the gun 1500psi at a time. (1500 where the regulation drops off, 3000psi max fill)

If I get more serious about airguns I'll reconsider. Right now it's a winter fun project to keep my fundamentals sharp till I get back out on the ranges with my powder burner precision rigs.
 
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