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PCP Rifle  SOLD Benjamin Marauder 25cal Air Rifle SOLD

I'm thinning the herd so I have a Benjamin Marauder 25cal with 2 mags another impulse buy just wanted to shoot it some and I now have so it's also looking for a new home, holds air great now that I replaced the leaking oring between the gauge and air tube. It definitely shoots better than I can shoot it an it punched a ragged hole at 25 yards with JTS 25.39s it's pushing them in the 850 to 870s. Asking $285 shipped and insured...Thanks Terry
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Western Airguns  ‼️ Deal Alert ‼️ Used Western Airguns Rattler .357 for $2000 @ Baker Airguns

Great price on a used Western Rattler. It appears to be a very early model. Be sure to read the description. I'd call to get the most details or to ask questions if I were in the market. I probably won't buy it, so why not pass the deal along to someone whois looking for one? $2000 plus shipping and tax and it's yours.

Mass flow rate

Mass flow rate is the amount of a gas that passes through an orifice per unit of time. The three primary parameters that effect the mass flow rate through an orifice are velocity, density, and orifice area. Other factors include gas temperature, orifice entry and orifice exit conditions, both of which are called coefficient of discharge based on the losses around a poppet or turn in the valve... In this thread I'll briefly discuss variables and will happily answer questions if they arise.

Brief mention on how Mass flow rate not only ties into airgun physics but its history.... I used mass flow rate calculations to assist and progress the understanding of balanced valves over at the GTA years ago in the Simplified Balanced Valve thread. My understanding of this calculation helped countless people get reliably tunable balanced valves in their guns for the tuning community, however FX had this figured out, to what degree I cannot say, but they had integrated balanced valves long before the tuning community even knew they had. Since the information went public? Now countless manufacturers are adding these valves to their guns. Coincidence? Maybe..

I also used mass flow rate calculations to help myself and another understand and integrate pilot valves into airguns mechanically while making them incredibly tunable.

The mass flow rate calculations helped paint a picture that shows the nature of whats going on inside both a balanced valve, and a pilot valve in a unit of time the human mind can't quite grasp without math, microseconds.





Velocity:

Lets discuss the Velocity of the air parcel (or rather the mean velocity, as there are many molecules, all moving at different speeds).

We'll use a choked flow formula, because the pressure ratio for airguns is incredibly high, and the flow is very much choked.


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  • γ (gamma): The adiabatic index (ratio of specific heats). For air, γ ≈ 1.4.
  • T1: The absolute temperature of the air in Kelvin.
  • p1: Pressure of compressed air inside airgun *but to be exact the average pressure during the shot cycle, which depends on start pressure and plenum volume
  • p2: Ambient pressure outside determined by your elevation
  • R = Gas constant.
For those curious, the formula to determine if the flow is choked is as follows, P1/P2 > (2/(γ + 1))^((γ + 1)/(γ - 1))

Using the above data for my gun, the velocity of air is approximately 769 m/s...or 2522 fps. Changing the pressure does not increase the velocity, as the parameters that determine velocity in choked flow are properties of the gas, or in our case compressed air, and its temperature. Super heating the air or super cooling the air would have great effects, or switching to helium the gas used to propel the projectile.

The above implies my gun can shoot a projectile upwards of 2,000+ fps on compressed air given the right conditions and a light enough projectile. Some may feel the need to challenge this take, and if so, be my guest, as these velocities have already been achieved in airguns by several members of the GTA community.

As noted, the only way to manipulate velocity of the gas itself, is changing the gas to a lighter or heavier one, or changing its temperature, changing the orifice diameter doesn't change the velocity of air either, however it will greatly effect the mass flow rate. Meaning you cannot increase the velocity of air alone with different calibers or porting, only the mass flow rate (volumetric) of air.





Density:

Next up is Density, what determines density? We'll use an approximation based on ideal gas behavior, which some may disagree with, however, if you have a better method please share! Ultimately calculating the exact density isn't the purpose of this discussion, rather understanding its makeup.

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Using the following:
  • Pressure (P): 2000 psi (converted to pascal) = 13,789,520 pa *(This would be the average pressure present during the shot cycle)
  • Temperature (T): 295 K (kelvin converted from 72F)
  • Specific Gas Constant for Air (R): 287 J/(kg·K)
We'll convert pressure to pascals.

1 psi = 6894.76 Pa
P=2000 psi×6894.76 Pa/psi=13,789,520 Pa

The above formula gives us a density of 162.1 kg/m3

The few ways to manipulate density is to

A) Change pressure (or change plenum volume to change pressure drop during shot cycle)
B) Change composition of gas
C) Change temperature which also has an effect on pressure

This means that as the density increases (more pressure) the mass air flow rate will also increase, assuming the Oririce area and velocity variables are left unchanged, which ultimately means the same airgun at a higher pressure can potentially eject more air mass over the same unit of time compared to the same airgun at a lower pressure, provided you're creating more dwell to reach the plateau at the higher pressure.



Orifice area

This is the porting through your airgun. The porting is limited either by design of the gun, or its caliber. You can port larger than the caliber however gains will quickly diminish to the point where you will experience losses. When porting any airgun, one must account for the CSA (cross-sectional area) of any obstructions within the pathway, be it a poppet stem, or the projectile probe.

CSA is calculated as such.

CSA = π⋅(d/2)²

Where d is the diameter, and CSA is cross sectional area.


Lets calculate my valves throat csa, my poppet stem csa, and make sure I have enough flow for my port csa.

Valve throat: 3.1415*(.238/2)² = .04374 sqaure inches
Poppet stem: 3.1415*(.047/2)² = .00174 square inches
Valve exit port: 3.1415*(.225/2)² = .0398 square inches

Now lets subtract the poppet stem csa from the valve throat csa, and we have get .042 in². Most tuners say you want around 5-10% more flow at this location than the rest of the system, likewise with the valve entrance, however I cannot confirm nor deny, but I generally try for a bit over, and in my case, its about 5.5%. What you don't want, is a negative value which would result in not only a slight reduction due to the restricted orifice area, but also because of additional wasted space ahead of the throat which is intended for more flow than one would see with a choke at the valve seat, resulting in undesirable pressure loss.

The other conditions:

Other conditions aren't as impactful yet should be mentioned, such as how many turns, radius of turn, porting surface quality, which often do matter to the most intense of enthusiasts and tuners trying to get every last ounce of performance from their airguns, this is basically Cd, or coefficient of discharge, the efficiency of the flow rate achieved vs calculated in perfect conditions. Temperature can play a large factor however for it to have extreme effects on mass flow rate, you'd have to have extreme shifts in temperature beyond what is reasonable inside the action of an airgun, I'm sure our airguns would eject a more intense mass of air if super heated to a few million celcius opposed to our commonly comfortable range of 0-40c which we shoot at, but even then I am sure seasoned shooters notice the shift in their guns performance from winter to summer, which can partially be chalked up to this key variable that determines the mass flow rate of your airgun.


-Matt

What are your thoughts on 3d printed accessories?

I was wondering what the general opinion was on 3d printed parts. The first 3d printed part I got was a chassis for the original AV Avenger, it is the Bonicci Goods design and is a hybrid unit. It has a 3d printed frame and carbon fiber panels on the side. Its been a pretty solid piece and my only complaints with it are with its overall functionality and nothing with its construction.
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Price Drop on Niksan Airguns at DonnyFL

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All Niksan models in stock at DonnyFL.com are now on sale and ready to ship. If you've been on the fence about one of these tough and accurate PCP's, not is the time to grab one before they are gone.
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What a difference without cataracts

In the past month I had both eyes cataract removal. It is some tremendous shooting now. I was just out. With my old Gamo Whisper .177 with a scope. After readjusting the ocular it was so amazIng. At 35 yds. I could see where the paint chipped off my spinners even with my sunglasses on. Never shot with regular sun glasses on before. I’m 71 and to know I may have good vision for my remaining time is so great. Im glad I got the motivation to get the surgery from some of the posts on AGN. Thanks all, stay well👍🙏😉

Retired members here?

I'm assuming the majority of members here are retired. Or if I'm wrong what is a good guess on the percentage of retired airguners?
Just guessing by reading a lot of the posts on when people are shooting or out farting around during the day..lol.
Hopefully I'll get there one day and join in on the
fun.✌🏻

N/A  Cost estimate per shot

Since taking up shooting springers 6 years ago I have probably fired a quarter million shots. Ive broken guns, mounts and scrambled scopes. Empty pellet tins and rifle shipping boxes litter the floor of the shop.

The thought of knowing how much I had spent almost terrified me. But the actual numbers looked pretty good.

Each shot has cost me about 4 cents.

Half the cost was in the pellet and half was the equipment.

I'm thrifty. And I shoot a lot of Hatsans with Crosman domes. I only own 5 air rifes. My cost per shot over time is probably very low by comparison.

How much does a shot really cost? A nickel? Three for a quarter? Has anyone ever looked at their numbers like that?

EDgun  Leshiy 2 dilemma.

I have a Leshiy classic as a compact gun for urban pesting and stuff. I also have an AGT Uragan 2 for more serious hunting. That said, I have firearms, so Uragan may have been an overkill for my needs. I am wondering if I should sell my Classic Leshiy and Uragan 2 and buy Leshiy 2 to replace both.

Anything I need to know about Leshiy 2? I was looking at REPR-X Long with Behemoth thingy attached. But I also see people rocking different regulators and all that. Is that something necessary or? Am I really upgrading by trading them for Leshiy 2?

Tried out the new Buck Rail “moderator “ last night.

I run his “moderators” on my Prod because it doesn’t need any of my larger ones for my back yard. It does a great job for sound, is very light and I don’t have to remove it to refill the gun. I bought the new one really just for the hell of it but did hope it would knock down the report just a little bit more. Well it did, I was very surprised at the difference. Now it’s not as quiet as my Sumo’s but for the Prod it is perfect and I’m slinging the CPHPs at 725 fps.

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  • Question
Brocock/BRK  BRK Ghost .25 Cal, 23" Barrel

So the above mentioned air rifle and I where shooting yesterday at 50 yards. The MKII didn't group very well and I swapped over to the 25.39 Exact Kings.
On power setting #9 they went all in mostly the same hole (see attached photo).

So the question I have is does it make sense or is it more efficient to lower the reg pressure and up the wheel setting? Or leave it alone in case I need/want to switch back to the MKII?

I can get two magazines (20 shots) when I fill up to 225 bar and refill around 160 bar. I believe I should be able to fill to 300 bar IIRC. Would reducing the reg pressure and upping the wheel increase shot count?

Please advise,

Smitty

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ached photo)

PCP Rifle  SOLD FX DreamTact Compact w/ .177 AND .22 Barrels - Lots of Custom Parts!

FX DreamTact Compact w/ 300mm .177 and .22 "Skinny" 20mm Barrels/Shroud - .177 Pin Probe, .22 High Flow Pellet Probe - x1 .177 FX Magazine, x1 .22 FX Magazine. 910 Airguns Short Throw Cocking Lever with Oversized Cocking Handle and custom two tone rubber soft grip - New Huma 23mm Gauges w/custom two tone rubber gauge covers (250 & 300 bar) - FX 300cc 250bar CF Bottle - FX Power Plenum - New FX Brass Piston AMP Regulator - New Upgraded Power Wheel w/ custom two tone rubber cover -Tethered Rubber Foster Fill Cover - Folding custom lightweight CF Tube/Bag Rider Buttstock w/ custom soft two tone Cheek Rest and Buttpad. "Knockoff" Atlas BT-10 w/QD Pic Clamp included.

It's a FULL Dual Caliber Package!! Perfect for Light Pesting or Plinking. PERFECT Like new condition, no leaks and shoots perfect. NOT INCLUDED are the Scope, Mount, and Moderator pictured. - ** HUGGET ATOM MODERATOR AND FX HARD CASE AVAILABLE AT ADDITIONAL COST**
$1150 Shipped/Insured (ships in original FX Box, no hard case) Paypal F&F (or cover the G&S Fees), Zelle, Venmo, Cash App.
Happy to answer any and all questions, contact info sent on request.

NO TRADES CONSIDERED AT THIS TIME! LOWBALLERS WILL BE IGNORED, DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME OR MINE PLEASE.

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Optics  WTS Monstrum prism scopes

I have two Monstrum 3X prism scope that are barely used. Both have the circular ring center dot. These are great scopes with almost 6" eye relief. I used them on two Notos I had and they make a great carry gun and I could actually hit cans at 50 yds offhand easily.
$100 shipped each

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My GX CS4 filling guns, but will not fill my scuba tank.

As the title states, my newish GX CS4 is not filling my scuba tank. The tank is 6.8l, 300bar. So I have been using this compressor for two months and it fills quick and stays cool. Love this thing. But with my new Panthera 700 I thought I would up my air game and get a tank. While filling however it seems to build just enough pressure to the get to the 1 line on the reading but then drops back down and this fluctuation keeps happening every 3 minutes or so. I double checked and it’s still filling the gun no problem. Lastly, when I first attempted to fill it when I got the tank I ran the line from the compressor to the output on the regulator by accident and realized a bit later and switched to the correct input. I’m wondering if putting the air through the output would’ve just trashed my regulator or something? Outside of that though if there’s any suggestions that would be great, id like to get to the bottom of this.

  • Question
FX  FX Dreamline Optics

Hello everyone,

I currently have a FX Dreamline GRS with a large Falcon x50 FT scope. I am finding that pesting in my yard is more my cup of tea and am considering getting rid of the Falcon. I am looking for a fixed mag option that is very lightweight. Probably 5x mag or so. A lot of my pesting is 30 yards and closer. Any recommendations? Should I consider prism sights?

Vortex tune kit for hw95

Question for anyone running a vortec kit in hw95 I’ve read some old threads were there seemed to be a lot of galling issues with this kit in the 95. I just put a vortec ho kit in my hw50 22 few weeks ago super impressed smooth fast lock time awesome shot cycle. My 95 is accurate and shoots great just the spring twang is annoying so thinking of dropping in a tune kit
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Shooting Position - Eye specific - Left Eye Dominate

I had the Ghost in .25 cal out today, trying to get a feel for her. I was shooting the JSB Exact King Heavy MKII 33.95grain from a Bi-Pod and rear bag, reg setting at 145 from the factory. Started with the settings at Min and worked up to Max. I didn't have my LabRadar out so I have no idea of the speed, with the distance at 50 yards by laser. Filled from 225 bar down to 160-165 bar on the bottle.

I next switched to JSB Exact King .25 25.39 gain and started at the Min and worked up through to the Max. The only thing I changed was: A. dialed 8 clicks down on the scope and wore an eye patch over my left eye. Left eye is dominate.

The MKII wouldn't group to save their life.
The Exact King 25.29 you can see the one group it one hole with 5 pellets going through it.

So I've tried to shoot with both eyes open - Shooting the MKII, and with an Eye Patch for the 25.39 grain Exact Kings. I also noticed if I tried to force my left eye closed it would change the impact point as well.

What do you all do to combat this issue? I'll be trying the MKII again tomorrow with an eye patch to see if they tighten up, if not it will be 145 on the reg and 9 on the wheel for submoa shooting.

After this I'll get the RedWolf out and start all over. It seems to love the 18 grain in .22. The Redesigned and similar weights not so much.

Suggestions.....

Smitty

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WARNING!!!

I I had been looking at Air Arms HFT 500 Piatt, for sale in our classified section. Then out of nowhere I got a e-mail outside of AGN that seemed legitimate but I kept wondering why did he contact me via email instead of through AGN. Supposedly needing to sell a lot of stuff fast to accommodate surgery.
So I sent the real Drizzts a PM on AGN and it was over a week before he replied. Guess what-he didn’t send me a email!!!
Big time scam alert - do not mess with random emails from a selller outside of AGN unless you have vetted them well!

BEWARE!!!

he used this email: Jimmie Worthman <[email protected]>

if you are selling something on AGN = please check your PM box regularly !!

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